Throw pulls 1st baseman off bag

[Justme]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Unsolicited? That's the last day you'll work in my area.

If BU needs help or if coach convinces him/her to ask, the PU should tell BU what he/she saw, and it's then BU's call to keep or change.

But NEVER EVER EVER should an umpire offer unsolicited advice on a judgement call that belongs to the other umpire. Never. Ever.

The NCAA disagrees with you..... also being taught this way in the FED clinic I attended.

NCAA Softball Umpire Improvement Program
Umpire Manual
(Including - Instructions for NCAA Umpire Manual Updates – 2006)

SECTION 7
B — Going for Help
The first requisite of an umpire is to ultimately get all decisions correct. But who will judge that the final decision is, in fact, the correct one?

If a call is changed from what it was originally, a different faction will now disagree with the modified call. Because of this, it is paramount that umpires do everything possible to make the correct decision initially and not have to change a call.

To substantially raise the odds of making a correct decision umpires have only to do their
job–every game, every play, every pitch. What this means is:
• You must know where you want to go.
• You must hustle to get there ahead of the play.
• You must be set for the play.
• You must adjust if the play develops differently.
• You must hold your decision until the play is completely over.
• You must move to your next position whether the play goes there or not.

Constantly and continually using the proven techniques for umpires will put, the over-whelming majority of the time, the umpire in a position to see the play more accurately than anyone else on the field. It is the nature of the game that whatever call an umpire makes, someone will disagree with it. Don’t sell yourself short! If you have gotten close enough to the play, gotten a desirable angle, clearly seen the action, and lack no necessary information needed for a decision, then why would you even entertain the thought that one of your partners, who was certainly farther away, probably had a worse angle, and definitely wasn’t looking to make the call, could see the play better than you.

Umpires are not to seek help on plays on which they are 100 percent confident in their judgment and view of the play. Have the conviction to stay with a call that you believe was made properly.

Going for help should not destroy the credibility of umpires and negate the value of a multiple umpire system. Do not go for help to pacify a coach or to be a nice guy. This is a cop-out and is disrespectful of yourself, other umpires, the coach, and the game itself. There are times, both by rule and circumstance, that an umpire will need to seek help on a call.

Umpires must get help on the following:

• A misinterpretation of a rule.
• When asked by the catcher on a checked swing called a ball.
• On a pickoff attempt when asked by a coach.
• When two umpires make different calls on the same play.
Umpires are explicitly advised and strongly urged to seek help on the following:
• When they are missing, or could be missing, crucial information needed to make an accurate judgment.
• When they have doubt.
• When doubt is created.

If you are missing a piece of information necessary to making a call, go to your partner, unsolicited, prior to rendering any decision. Ask your partner what you need to know: “Did she have the bag?” “Was the ball dropped/bobbled?” Your partner will respond with a verbal answer to your question. You then follow with the final call and signal for the play. If doubt is created immediately after making your call, then, again unsolicited, go to your partner for the information you need. If, after making your call and playing action has ceased, you are asked to get some help and you have doubt, (e.g., a part of the play you did not see as clearly as you would have liked and could have missed a crucial element), then ask your partner for assistance.

Keep in mind that some calls cannot be reversed after playing action without creating larger problems like where to place runners and determining what would have happened had the call been different. If you, probably because of poor timing, make an immediately apparent incorrect call, promptly change the call to the correct one.

Any time you seek help from a partner, that partner must have been in a credible position to give you assistance with the call. The umpire whose call it was must be the one to seek help from a partner and has the ultimate decision of whether to change the call or not. Rarely is there a need for umpires to come together and confer. Unnecessary conferences among umpires delay the game and cast doubt on the crew. Most requests for assistance from a partner should be out in the open, direct, and concise - “Jane, was the ball on the ground?”

Only in the situations listed below, a partner who is 100 percent certain he/she has additional information unknown to the umpire making the call, should approach unsolicited and alert the other umpire to such information. This is an extremely rare circumstance, and the ultimate decision to change a call still rests with the calling umpire:

• Deciding if a home run is fair or foul.
• Deciding whether a batted ball left the playing field for a home run or ground-rule double.
• Cases where a foul tip is dropped or trapped by the catcher.
• Cases where a foul fly ball is caught or not caught.
• Cases when an umpire clearly errs in judgment because they did not see a dropped or juggled ball after making a tag or force.
• Spectator interference plays.

Psychology of Asking for Help
Many times coaches really do not expect a call to be changed. But if they can get an umpire to seek help, they have gotten the umpire to admit doubt. Though the call may not be changed, the coach has set a precedent and will expect the umpire to go for help on all future requests. Because you went for help for one coach, the other coach will feel justified in expecting the same treatment

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Justme

NCAA Softball Umpire Improvement Program
Umpire Manual
(Including - Instructions for NCAA Umpire Manual Updates – 2006)

This is the baseball board... Is it possible that the two games that are played under different rules are also officiated with different guidlines? I posted the CCA manual notes in a preceding post.

[Tim C]

Justme:

I have always respected your work (and still do) however there is a huge difference between baseball and softball.

Softball rules and interpretations are not connected, in any way, with baseball.

Regards,

Originally Posted by ctblu40

This is the baseball board... Is it possible that the two games that are played under different rules are also officiated with different guidlines? I posted the CCA manual notes in a preceding post.

His post is verbatim of what is in the 2007 NCAA Baseball Umpires Manual.

My bad for suggesting that you might step in and offer unsolicited information on a pulled foot.

But again, if the game is on the line over that call, personally, I will probably go out on a limb and still go unsolicited to the decided umpire and tell him what I saw.

In any case, that is a situation where the deciding umpire should be telling the coach "Hey Skip, I am going to talk with my partner about this call ok? I am going to check to see if he seen what I seen." No harm in that at all.

But indeed, at the NCAA level, and you WILL see this at the NFHS level in their manuals (I am in Oregon, thus, we use CCA mechanics, thus, I am going with the NCAA way of seek help...).

I think it is natural for us umpires to be suspicious of any procedure where we might have to admit we are wrong to a coach! But, in the last couple of years in NCAA ball, I have personally never seen this concept abused by a coach, and opposing coaches have accepted this procedure gracefully, even when the call as been reversed. Yes, they have their "turn" at questioning you, but at the end of the day, everybody is happy that the call is right!

I am personally in favor or the CREW ON THE FIELD getting together on certain calls and getting in right. But if replay ever shows up on the diamond, I will have to give hard thought to whether I want to do this anymore.

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by 505 ump

What is the procedure when: you're pu and on a infield hit, on the throw to first, the first baseman is pulled off the bag and the bu calls him out? You saw it and the off. coach in the coaches box saw it. How do you make right and not make bu look bad.

Fist covering heart signals "I have a call if you need it".
If he points to me, I'll come over to him and tell him what I saw.
If he ignores it, play on.
His call start to finish.