foul tip - rule question

[newump]

2 outs. 2 strikes on B1. pitch bounces in the dirt, then B1 swings and tips the ball directly back to F2's glove, where F2 catches it. foul tip batter out? is this also a dropped 3rd strike situation. does F2 need to tag the batter or throw to first. a friend, who has twice been to ump school, believes that F2 must tag the batter or throw to first. he insists that he covered this exact sit while at school. most of the rest of the group opposed his ruling.
thoughts?
thx.

[greymule]

There is some dispute over this, even, I think, between Jaksa and Roder. Most umps, including me, would say it meets the definition of foul tip. Therefore, not an uncaught strike 3; batter is out.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by newump

2 outs. 2 strikes on B1. pitch bounces in the dirt, then B1 swings and tips the ball directly back to F2's glove, where F2 catches it. foul tip batter out? is this also a dropped 3rd strike situation. does F2 need to tag the batter or throw to first. a friend, who has twice been to ump school, believes that F2 must tag the batter or throw to first. he insists that he covered this exact sit while at school. most of the rest of the group opposed his ruling.
thoughts?
thx.

This is an uncaught third strike. The batter can advance to first base at his own risk. Your friend is correct.

MTD, Sr.

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

This is an uncaught third strike. The batter can advance to first base at his own risk. Your friend is correct.

MTD, Sr.

Ball that hits the ground cannot be caught correct?

[Tim C]

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wrote:

"This is an uncaught third strike. The batter can advance to first base at his own risk. Your friend is correct."

Site a rules interpretation . . . anything at all that says:

If a batter can hit the bouncing pitch for a home run . . . why would the simple fact that the pitch bounced before foul tipped . . . that it would not be a caught (and actually a foul tip) for a strike.

Your friend is WRONG. And so is Mark.

I am waiting . . . we have done this at least three times in the last year.

MTD is referring to an old "pseudo" ruling from Roder. And he is wrong.

Evans has made it clear and Roder now agrees.

RODER in one interp said it could not be caught for a foul tip.

Evans retorted that if the pitch can be hit for a home run how could anyone say it is not a "foul tip" and Roder folded . . . to Roder's credit: he talked with the entire MLB staff and they all agreed it would be a foul tip!

Additional comment:

When are the "hands part of the bat?"

We've been there before also . . .

Regards,

PS: If it hits the ground we refer to the original definition of a foul ball.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by newump

2 outs. 2 strikes on B1. pitch bounces in the dirt, then B1 swings and tips the ball directly back to F2's glove, where F2 catches it. foul tip batter out? is this also a dropped 3rd strike situation. does F2 need to tag the batter or throw to first. a friend, who has twice been to ump school, believes that F2 must tag the batter or throw to first. he insists that he covered this exact sit while at school. most of the rest of the group opposed his ruling.
thoughts?
thx.

I vote foul tip if caught, strike 3, batters out.

But if not caught.......doesn't a foul tip that isn't caught become a foul ball? Sure it does.

If not caught I vote "Foul", the count remains at 2 strikes

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by greymule

There is some dispute over this, even, I think, between Jaksa and Roder. Most umps, including me, would say it meets the definition of foul tip. Therefore, not an uncaught strike 3; batter is out.

There is no disagreement. Roder changed his ruling some time ago to line up with Evans. Current Pro interpretation is that this is a foul tip. A pitch that hits the dirt can be anything but a called strike. Jiust as a batter can hit it for homerun, so, too can it be a foul tip.

Edited to add: "Voting" for one position or another is meaningless. The Evans ruling, which is now Roder's ruling has been accepted by MLB.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Evans retorted that if the pitch can be hit for a home run how could anyone say it is not a "foul tip" and Roder folded . . . to Roder's credit: he talked with the entire MLB staff and they all agreed it would be a foul tip!

If there are two strikes and the batter swings and misses at the bounced pitch he becomes a runner and can advance to first base. Now let's say that the batter does better than missing the pitch, this time he tips it to the catcher. Now this is a foul tip and he is out.

In the first play the batter did not contact the ball and he was not out. In the second play the batter did a better job at making contact with the ball but he is called out. Isn't that penalizing the batter for hitting the ball?

I'm not saying that Roder's old way of calling this is correct, I'm just giving some input to the situation.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Edited to add: "Voting" for one position or another is meaningless. The Evans ruling, which is now Roder's ruling has been accepted by MLB.

It's not meaningless to me.... Looks like Evans & Roder both vote my way too.... Majority rules huh?

I vote that you take yourself too seriously.......

[GarthB]

[QUOTE=Justme]It's not meaningless to me.... QUOTE]

Then by all mean, amuse yourself.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by LDUB

If there are two strikes and the batter swings and misses at the bounced pitch he becomes a runner and can advance to first base. Now let's say that the batter does better than missing the pitch, this time he tips it to the catcher. Now this is a foul tip and he is out.

In the first play the batter did not contact the ball and he was not out. In the second play the batter did a better job at making contact with the ball but he is called out. Isn't that penalizing the batter for hitting the ball?

I'm not saying that Roder's old way of calling this is correct, I'm just giving some input to the situation.

Let's say that the pitch doesn't hit the ground...in fact it's down the middle, at the belt. The batter swings and misses, but F2 can't handle the ball. The batter runs and makes it to 1B. The next batter, same pitch location, foul tips it to F2. The batter is out. Do you think that's penalizing the batter for hitting the ball?

[Justme]

[QUOTE=GarthB]

Originally Posted by Justme

It's not meaningless to me.... QUOTE]

Then by all mean, amuse yourself.

Thank you, I was just sitting here waiting for your approval.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Just about the only thing a bounced pitch cannot become is a called strike.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Isn't that penalizing the batter for hitting the ball?

Since neither batter should be swinging at pitches in the dirt, I'd say the first batter got away with one.

[Uncle George]

According to the 2007 NFHS Baseball Rule book, Rule 2-16-2:

"A foul tip is a batted ball that goes directly to the catchers hands and is legally caught by any fielder. It shall be called a strike and the ball is in play."

SanDiegoSteve, help me out, in this situation it's a caught thrid strike foul tip, batter is out, thus the third out?