Partners "stepping in" to your discussion...

Originally Posted by Durham

Nope it was more like Verbal MFing Kung Fu!

I remember a game a couple of years ago where a coach who I know quite well came out on me because I called his stealing runner out at second. He is one of those coaches that never gets thrown out because he never says anything to get himself thrown out. When he yells, it is usually just so everybody knows he is out "protecting his player". Never any disparaging comments, personal insults, questioning your actual judgment, or any crap like that. He just argues stuff like "are you sure you had the right angle to see that?", or "is that really the rule?". It is almost comical. I usually give him a little time to say his peace and I know I will not hear from him for the rest of the game.

Anyway, in said game, he is out there asking all the usuals, and my fairly new partner (about 4 years umpiring) comes out and says "Come on guys, lets go". The coach turns and looks at him, turns towards me with that look of like "Who is this guy?", turns back to my partner and asks "Who the heck are you? I was discussing this with your partner!", turns back to me and says "Thanks for listening", and heads off to his dugout. From this point on, the assistant from that team started taking little sniper shots about balls and strikes from the dugout on my partner, of which, he didn't deal with at all! LOL

I am not sure if he really learned any kind of lesson there because the post game didn't go so well for various other reasons. He didn't get any Varsity assignments after the pre-season.

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by rei

I remember a game a couple of years ago ....................

Managers that snipe like this get the 'cold shoulder' on the outside but also burn up what little 'jurisdictional license' they have with me.

Not to mention fuse length! To me, small bullsh*t remarks concerning Strikes/Balls that are repeated is Prolonged.

Originally Posted by Rcichon

Managers that snipe like this get the 'cold shoulder' on the outside but also burn up what little 'jurisdictional license' they have with me.

Not to mention fuse length! To me, small bullsh*t remarks concerning Strikes/Balls that are repeated is Prolonged.

I agree! I don't allow it to continue when I am on the plate, ESPECIALLY from an assistant coach! If it is totally out of hand and I am on the bases and my partner doesn't take care of it, I will most likely step in.

But on this day, with this partner, I figured since he wanted to butt into our discussion earlier, he must be willing to take some crap he shouldn't, and I let it go. During the pre-game, when I tried to cover some stuff with him, he kept saying stuff like "I already know that, let's move on", and "I know what I am doing", etc...

Again, he isn't doing any varsity ball, even now. He seemed to have a little problem with constructive criticism from senior partners, and that is holding him back. Well, and maybe his freshman strike zone too!

With a partner who just outright doesn't know what is going on, or who obviously can't handle a tough situation, but at least has a shred of humility, I would never think of hanging them out to dry. But when a guy gives every indication that he isn't interested in what I have to say, I am not going to step in until the situation has the potential of becoming violent between my partner and a coach.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by rei

But on this day, with this partner, I figured since he wanted to butt into our discussion earlier, he must be willing to take some crap he shouldn't, and I let it go. During the pre-game, when I tried to cover some stuff with him, he kept saying stuff like "I already know that, let's move on", and "I know what I am doing", etc...

.

I had a different take on what your P did when you originally posted it. And in fact still do.
Your P in this game was the PU and is charged with moving the game along. He's listening to this coach arguing or talking or discussing or whatever it is he does, about nothing, a bunch of fluff based on how you described it. Your P simply came out and said "lets go" lets play ball. If you and this coach want to dance, do it on your own time. I'd say this young PU had a pretty good read on this coach from the get go and did his job.
BTW, if a coach turns to me in that situation and says "who the heck are you" it would probably be his last question of the day, most certainly the last one outside the dugout.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by rei

During the pre-game, when I tried to cover some stuff with him, he kept saying stuff like "I already know that, let's move on", and "I know what I am doing", etc...

Based on the pregame advice you were bragging about in the other thread, I don't blame the kid. Good job chasing off a potential umpire.

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Based on the pregame advice you were bragging about in the other thread, I don't blame the kid. Good job chasing off a potential umpire.

Chase him off? This is an ignorant statement. He is still at it. I did not work with him last year, so I have no idea if he has figured it out yet or not. Certainly, his one game working with me was not the only incident he had with veteran officials. My opinion of an umpire to our commissioner doesn't hold so much weight to hold them back from the varsity level, but a collective opinion sure would!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by rei

The coach turns and looks at him, turns towards me with that look of like "Who is this guy?", turns back to my partner and asks "Who the heck are you? I was discussing this with your partner!", turns back to me and says "Thanks for listening", and heads off to his dugout.

You seem to think this was funny. I'd work with your partner anyday. This is the second time you've come on here with a story you thought was funny where it sounds (even from YOUR words) like you were the problem. What are you doing playing pattycake with this guy for? Kudos to the new guy for not letting you waste everyone else's time. And no kudos to you for not tossing the jerk for disparaging your partner to your face. Nice sticking up for the partner there.

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You seem to think this was funny. I'd work with your partner anyday. This is the second time you've come on here with a story you thought was funny where it sounds (even from YOUR words) like you were the problem. What are you doing playing pattycake with this guy for? Kudos to the new guy for not letting you waste everyone else's time. And no kudos to you for not tossing the jerk for disparaging your partner to your face. Nice sticking up for the partner there.

Actually, the coach has every right to come out and ask questions about that call. I have no problem with coaches that I know do not step over the line doing a little yelling and screaming provided that they don't repeat questions, and don't question my judgment.

My job isn't to jack a guy just because he is carrying on a bit. I have been around the argument block more than my fair share of times, and have enough years working with coaches in this area to know who some of the good guys and bad guys are. I don't play "pattycake" with anybody. But it is my call to decide when the discussion is over, not my partners! In this particular case, the argument was not very long, and it was constructive, and he had no business cutting in.

As much as it is up to me to decide when a coach is done "discussing" a call with me, it is also up to my partner to decide when he wants to run a guy. You can't have it both ways! Either you can say it is okay for your partner to cut in on something, or it isn't. If my partner heard what was said to him and didn't throw the coach, I sure as heck ain't gonna do it for him!

It is easy to have hard and fast rules about umpiring, but the longer I do this, the more I respect that each situation has it's own unique dynamic to it. I used to be a quick to eject umpire, and it only stressed me out being that way. What has worked far better for me is to work towards keeping people in the game, even if that means it appears I didn't get the "upper hand" in the situation. There are times when letting a coach rant a bit works out very well, and the better you know the coaches you are working with, the better you are at determining when enough is enough. It is just not the same in every situation!

I worked with an ex AAA umpire last year in a game that started to get pretty heated from one side. Lots of little things going on. Comments from the dugout, catcher getting a bit mouthy, hitters making comments. Finally, a guy got thrown. The manager came out, and a HUGE prolonged argument ensued. I was standing 20 or so feet away and could not hear a word being said because the crowd was so loud telling him to eject the manager. He didn't, and not another incident with that team happened in that game! I thought for sure he was going to jack this manager, but he didn't, and the manager got control of his ball club. In another game, I seen him eject an assistant rather quickly, and the manager didn't even come out on it. No problems after that either.

I guess what I am getting at is that in both cases, I would have been inclined to do opposite of what he did, and that may or may not have worked for me. But after his 25 years of professional ball, he had a pretty good handle on when it was appropriate and even desirable to allow a confrontation to go a little long, and when a quick boot would serve the game well! It worked for him, and the players and coaches mostly showed great respect towards this guy!

So, don't be so quick to judge a situation that you didn't attend, especially when the way the person handled it worked out. All this typing out of situations on a bulletin board NEVER comes close to painted the most accurate picture of what really happened, and when it comes to handling situations, there is a lot of room for "You had to have been there" to come into play to fully appreciate how the person handled it!

Peace out bros.