Partners "stepping in" to your discussion...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by rei

I know most people don't like it, but what would you do about it if your partner was senior to you in your organization? That is the $16 question.

I don't care if God himself comes down and gets in the middle of my argument, I will just tell Him to get back to Heaven where he belongs, because this is my business here.

The same thing goes for the guy who works the upper level ball to which I aspire. I've worked with these guys before, and they have never tried to do this, ever. It has always been a "sink or swim" mentality on these kind of situations. But if one of them had tried to step on my toes, they would have heard about it from me after the game. To do any less would be like kissing up to them, which I've never been about.

[JRutledge]

Discuss this before the game. Then you know what the expectations are during a blow up. I have no problem with my partner being in the area if a discussion is going on too long or they are there to get other participants out of the discussion. I do not think there is a one-size fits all point of view. But I would discuss this because you will have a debate on some level.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Discuss this before the game. Then you know what the expectations are during a blow up. I have no problem with my partner being in the area if a discussion is going on too long or they are there to get other participants out of the discussion. I do not think there is a one-size fits all point of view. But I would discuss this because you will have a debate on some level.

Peace

Let's say it was covered before that game!

Sorry SanDiegoSteve, I just cannot buy into such a hard core stance on this. There are times when you can screw your future up by not dealing with a situation with a partner well.

I work with a lot of great guys! But here and there, I work with somebody who has had their head up their fanny for so long that they forgot that their poop stinks too!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rei

Let's say it was covered before that game!

I work with a lot of great guys! But here and there, I work with somebody who has had their head up their fanny for so long that they forgot that their poop stinks too!

You cover it so you know where your partner stands. You do not have to go over every possible situation. You just have to go over attitudes about how you want to handle basic discussions. There are always exceptions, but if you want to keep yourself out of being completely surprised, cover "How we want to handle arguments during this game." Then when the $h!t hits the fan, you can do what is discussed or choose to ignore it.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rei

Let's say it was covered before that game!

Sorry SanDiegoSteve, I just cannot buy into such a hard core stance on this. There are times when you can screw your future up by not dealing with a situation with a partner well.

I work with a lot of great guys! But here and there, I work with somebody who has had their head up their fanny for so long that they forgot that their poop stinks too!

I will likely not be in this situation. We work with regular partners (I have 25 HS and college dates with one guy and 10 dates with another guy -- both close friends) and I don't aspire to be more than a better official at my current level.

But I do know where you're coming from, as I've moved about 5 times before settling in here in my current, snow-covered location. And I've had partners act like I've never umpired before even though I could tell in minutes that I'd be carrying them in rough moments even though they were the ones politically connected.

All you can do is let your umpiring speak for itself and not make life difficult for yourself while you're climbing the ladder. If a partner got in the middle during an argument at a level I didn't work often or was working towards, I'd likely let it go and figure out why he did it after the game.

I'll be honest, I know I did it myself once or twice last season -- I jumped in when an inexperienced partner was clearly overmatched. But I'm the assignor/UIC of the league, so I wasn't (at the time) interested in watching my partner suffer -- I needed the umpire to stay in the league and fill slots and learn without getting thrown to the wolves. I don't believe you necessarily learn how to swim best by getting thrown into a tank full of piranhas, either.

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I will likely not be in this situation. We work with regular partners (I have 25 HS and college dates with one guy and 10 dates with another guy -- both close friends) and I don't aspire to be more than a better official at my current level.

But I do know where you're coming from, as I've moved about 5 times before settling in here in my current, snow-covered location. And I've had partners act like I've never umpired before even though I could tell in minutes that I'd be carrying them in rough moments even though they were the ones politically connected.

All you can do is let your umpiring speak for itself and not make life difficult for yourself while you're climbing the ladder. If a partner got in the middle during an argument at a level I didn't work often or was working towards, I'd likely let it go and figure out why he did it after the game.

I'll be honest, I know I did it myself once or twice last season -- I jumped in when an inexperienced partner was clearly overmatched. But I'm the assignor/UIC of the league, so I wasn't (at the time) interested in watching my partner suffer -- I needed the umpire to stay in the league and fill slots and learn without getting thrown to the wolves. I don't believe you necessarily learn how to swim best by getting thrown into a tank full of piranhas, either.

I appreciate your comments, and support.

I too have cut in on a inexperienced partner when a bully was on him, for the good of the game you know!

I think that there are times when you are dealing with somebody who probably will not go to the next level, but has the ear of a lot of people who are at that level. Like it or not, you have to go through some people who are not exactly the most effacing umpires who look for opportunities to be officious. I suppose that says a lot about why they didn't achieve that next level.

I can think of some D1 non-conference umpires who are technically a lot better than some conference umpires, but lack the same easy going way about them, and don't seem to show a lot of care to the guys that are trying to move up.

Personally, I really like working with and helping guys on the way up. They constantly remind me that I have to look for ways to improve every game! Some of my favorite people to work with who have achieved a level higher than I am doing are more than willing to let me make my own mistakes, as it should be! They wait to give feedback about what I did wrong for when I ask for it. Sometimes, they give me things I have never thought of.

It is guys that are doing the higher level who are officious that bug me the most. Gawd help me if I ever become officious!

I just posted all of this because not only have I experienced some D1 guys who "cut in" on stuff that they should stay out of, but have seen a lot of footage where it has happened. It is like these guys are looking to get into the middle of the conflict! A college coach actually stated displeasure about another umpire, BY NAME to me, who was calling a lot of attention to himself in various ways. It was interesting to hear about, and frankly, I agreed with him, but of course got out of that conversation as gracefully and quickly as I could! ("Hey coach, is that hot dog stand over there open? I sure am hungry! ).

Maybe "red a$$" is getting a little carried away at the D1 level?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by rei

Sorry SanDiegoSteve, I just cannot buy into such a hard core stance on this. There are times when you can screw your future up by not dealing with a situation with a partner well.

Then let me rephrase it. I've never needed anyone to step in for me when dealing with coaches during arguments, so that situation has never reared its ugly head. After ejections or when ganged up on, yes, I certainly welcome help in getting rid of the offending or extra participant(s). That is the partner's job.

Like I said, nobody has ever tried to step in between a coach and me during a one-on-one confrontation. The people I have worked with know better than to do that. My partners have fortunately been one of 3 things: 1) Too young and/or inexperienced to be that bold, (2) equals who would not want it done to them, so they know better or (3) are my senior, and as old school umpires, would just let me sink or swim on my own anyway.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by rei

Let's say it was covered before that game!

Sorry SanDiegoSteve, I just cannot buy into such a hard core stance on this. There are times when you can screw your future up by not dealing with a situation with a partner well.

rei:

All of could say "Never happened, won't happen" but most of us assumed you wanted a "what if" answer and cooperated.

As you may have observed, Stevie either doesn't understand the purpose of a hypothetical question or is choosing not to answer it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

rei:

All of could say "Never happened, won't happen" but most of us assumed you wanted a "what if" answer and cooperated.

As you may have observed, Stevie either doesn't understand the purpose of a hypothetical question or is choosing not to answer it.

No Garth, I already answered the question in a prior post. Regardless of the "Statoos" of the umpire who cut in, I would have a talk after the game with the individual, as it is not proper to step on a veteran umpire in such a situation. Hell, even when I was a rook I knew how to handle my business, as I was taught by pro school grads from Day One.

And you don't have permission to refer to me as Stevie, so knock it the F off.

[David B]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Discuss this before the game. Then you know what the expectations are during a blow up. I have no problem with my partner being in the area if a discussion is going on too long or they are there to get other participants out of the discussion. I do not think there is a one-size fits all point of view. But I would discuss this because you will have a debate on some level.

Peace

I agree totally. Just as important to all of the other pregame, I always make it a point to cover problems.

If we have a problem with a coach ...

But bottom line is that "he made the call" go with it.

Now if my partner wants to discuss something with me that's different.

However, as someone said, never allow a double team. If my partner is discussing, then I'm managing the rest of the field.

thanks
David

[lawump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I don't care if God himself comes down and gets in the middle of my argument

He won't. As far as I know, Doug Harvey is still retired.