Partners "stepping in" to your discussion...

Ever have it happen? Working with a guy, and say you call a runner's interference on the bases, and as the Head Coach of the offending team comes out to find out what it is all about, your partner cuts him off and explains your call for you?

What would you do/say afterwards if the person is senior to you?

What about your partner "stepping in" during a perfectly good argument with a coach who you know very well, and you know is doing a little show to fire up the troops and let off a little steam, and your partner says "Come on guys, let's go"?

I gotta admit, I have seen an alarming number of instances where the first is happening, or even worse, where umpires are "ganging up" on Head Coaches. You see it a few different times in one of the NCAA presentations this year.

Personally, I stay out of people's discussion until my partner peels away after ejecting somebody. There is no point before then where I will interject into the discussion. It is not my discussion. I expect that same protocol from my partners but haven't felt the need to cover it in a pre-game for a long time.

It just got added to the pre-game list.

Same with the partner trying to cut in mid-way through an argument. While I know they have good intentions, it actually makes things worse for them, because not only is the coach pissed at them, but so am I!

Very interested in hearing your take on it. Maybe we can get some good discussion on this before it becomes a pee-off between a few people eh?

[DG]

I don't explain my partner's calls, and I don't butt in unless I need to.

[kylejt]

The only time I've done this was when I was working with a rookie, junior umpire. The manager wanted time to argue a bang-bang play at second. I told him unless he had a dropped ball, pulled foot, or missed tag, don't even bother.

Other than a guy trying to intimidate a rookie, I'll stay waaay out of it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rei

Ever have it happen? Working with a guy, and say you call a runner's interference on the bases, and as the Head Coach of the offending team comes out to find out what it is all about, your partner cuts him off and explains your call for you?

What would you do/say afterwards if the person is senior to you?

What about your partner "stepping in" during a perfectly good argument with a coach who you know very well, and you know is doing a little show to fire up the troops and let off a little steam, and your partner says "Come on guys, let's go"?

I gotta admit, I have seen an alarming number of instances where the first is happening, or even worse, where umpires are "ganging up" on Head Coaches. You see it a few different times in one of the NCAA presentations this year.

Personally, I stay out of people's discussion until my partner peels away after ejecting somebody. There is no point before then where I will interject into the discussion. It is not my discussion. I expect that same protocol from my partners but haven't felt the need to cover it in a pre-game for a long time.

It just got added to the pre-game list.

Same with the partner trying to cut in mid-way through an argument. While I know they have good intentions, it actually makes things worse for them, because not only is the coach pissed at them, but so am I!

Very interested in hearing your take on it. Maybe we can get some good discussion on this before it becomes a pee-off between a few people eh?

I had never been so mad on a field than the day my partner got between me and a coach before I had tossed him. It's my business as long as the coach is still in the game.

I might get closer to the argument, but that's only so I don't have as far to go after the ejection. The only time I get involved if there's a 2-on-1 -- then I'm picking the other person off so my partner has the head coach 1-on-1.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Just what Rich said.

I don't like butt-inskies either. It's my argument, and the day I can't handle a single manager without assistance is the day I would quit.

I know most people don't like it, but what would you do about it if your partner was senior to you in your organization? That is the $16 question.

Let's pile it on. What if this partner is doing the level of ball you aspire to, and knows almost everybody that can help you get there?

What are you going to say when they cut in on your discussion?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by rei

Let's pile it on. What if this partner is doing the level of ball you aspire to, and knows almost everybody that can help you get there?

What are you going to say when they cut in on your discussion?

After the game:

"Bob, I know you were trying to help me out out there, and I appreciate that. I rely on umpires like you to mentor me, but I think you need to see how I manage situations on my own so you can better judge how much advice and instruction I still need. Does that make sense?"

[PeteBooth]

The aforementioned is a Life question as well. In other words are you willing to "swallow your pride" for the sake of advancement.

Also, is umpiring your profession as opposed to a hobby. This might sound "off base" (no pun inteneded) but umpiring should be fun. One gets enough stress at work and if your working with "top dogs" who make you feel uncomfortable then it's up to the individual to determine if you are going to "take it" or say something.

Advancing through the umpiring ranks in a way is no different than advancing in the sport itself. Managers often leave some young pitcher's in the game simply to see how much guts they have or whether or not they can work their way through it. They want to find this out before the playoffs begin etc. if every-time a young pitcher got in trouble he was replaced, it would make that pitcher's life more difficult to succeed because he was never given the chance.

Same is true when umpiring. You need to learn how to handle cerrtain situations and you will not find the answers in some book. You will learn through experiences and if someone is constantly "stepping in" for you he is doing you an injustice because you will not learn that way.

I fully understand a veteran umpire "stepping in" if he has given you a chance to talk to the coach but now the conversation is dragging, getting very heated and going no-where. It's now time to step in and get the game moving.

There is a reason for a POST game evaluation and the reason is to critique your performance so that you as an umpire can improve. Sometimes "Top Dogs" do not want to critique etc. because they are afraid (especially if the umpire they are critiquing is talented) they will be replaced as top dog.

The answer lies in ones goals and if you truly want to get to "that level" then you do whatever it takes.

Pete Booth

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by rei

I know most people don't like it, but what would you do about it if your partner was senior to you in your organization? That is the $16 question.

I don't care if God himself comes down and gets in the middle of my argument, I will just tell Him to get back to Heaven where he belongs, because this is my business here.

The same thing goes for the guy who works the upper level ball to which I aspire. I've worked with these guys before, and they have never tried to do this, ever. It has always been a "sink or swim" mentality on these kind of situations. But if one of them had tried to step on my toes, they would have heard about it from me after the game. To do any less would be like kissing up to them, which I've never been about.

[JRutledge]

Discuss this before the game. Then you know what the expectations are during a blow up. I have no problem with my partner being in the area if a discussion is going on too long or they are there to get other participants out of the discussion. I do not think there is a one-size fits all point of view. But I would discuss this because you will have a debate on some level.

Peace

[lawump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I don't care if God himself comes down and gets in the middle of my argument

He won't. As far as I know, Doug Harvey is still retired.

Do most threads here turn into in-fighting by the second page usually?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rei

Do most threads here turn into in-fighting by the second page usually?

Only when Larry, Shep and Moe are on-line.......

Soooooooo..........ever seen a rising gyroball?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Soooooooo..........ever seen a rising gyroball?

No, but my mojo rises watching Jennie Finch gyro her hips!