HOF Snub

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

I suppose it okay for umpires to bet on baseball even if they are not working the game they are betting on.

I don't think anyone said that it was right for Pete Rose to bet on baseball. He finally admitted to something that I'm quite sure he was ashamed of, and couldn't come to grips for years about. I think he was embarrassed that he had hurt the game, and struggled with the guilt. Until you have walked a mile in Pete's cleats, you don't know what he went through, or why it took him so long to come clean.

Pete Rose's statistics as a player warrant his inclusion into the Hall of Fame. Keeping him out because of something he did as a manager is unfair, IMO.

Gaylord Perry is in the HOF, and he cheated in baseball on a daily basis, and I don't see anybody squawking about that.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Gaylord Perry is in the HOF, and he cheated in baseball on a daily basis, and I don't see anybody squawking about that.

Doctoring a baseball, and helping organized crime bet on baseball is pretty far apart. One gets you ejected from a game, the other gets you ejected from THE GAME.

I don't like Pete because he's dumb. Just plain dumb.

[DG]

Pete Rose was one of the greatest players to ever play. He made some mistakes as a manager including betting on baseball.

You can do many crimes and get off with a few years in prison, but only after conviction by a jury, not conviction by one person. You can also get early release in some cases.

IMO there are a lot more serious crimes than betting on baseball games. Kyle makes a good point about insider trading, but someone convicted of insider trading would not be penalized for life. However, I disagree that he was dumb. You can't play the game like Pete did and be dumb. You have to analyze and adjust to put up the stats he did. He was an all star at many positions, and someone dumb can not adjust enough at the plate to be the all time hit leader in major league baseball.

Pete Rose belongs in the hall, as a player, for his performance as a player.

Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken also belong, no doubt about it.

That is all I will say on the subject.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by DG

Kyle makes a good point about insider trading, but someone convicted of insider trading would not be penalized for life.

Being incarcerated and being excluded from consideration for induction into the Hall of Fame are not comparable. As Jules might say to Vincent Vega, it ain't the same f*****' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same f*****' sport.

Beyond that, the convicted inside trader could certainly argue that he was "penalized for life," very much in the same way that Rose has been by baseball. It is extremely unlikely that a convicted insider trader is going to become employed in the financial services industry where his expertise would lie.

And, in my opinion, that would be just.

[Pete in AZ]

Originally Posted by DG

Pete Rose was one of the greatest players to ever play. He made some mistakes as a manager including betting on baseball.

You can do many crimes and get off with a few years in prison, but only after conviction by a jury, not conviction by one person. You can also get early release in some cases.

IMO there are a lot more serious crimes than betting on baseball games. Kyle makes a good point about insider trading, but someone convicted of insider trading would not be penalized for life. However, I disagree that he was dumb. You can't play the game like Pete did and be dumb. You have to analyze and adjust to put up the stats he did. He was an all star at many positions, and someone dumb can not adjust enough at the plate to be the all time hit leader in major league baseball.

Pete Rose belongs in the hall, as a player, for his performance as a player.

Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken also belong, no doubt about it.

That is all I will say on the subject.

Hi guys, happy new year and all that. I like this thread because it makes me remember why I love baseball so much. Pete Rose does not belong in the HOF because he has made a joke of the game. While playing he bet on the game. While managing he bet on the game. No one knows if he did anything to affect the outcome of games but he lied about it. Like a child he couldn't admit it, take his lumps and get on with it. He is penalized for being dumb and arrogant. No one is above the rules. I have a good friend that spent a long time in the Army. He was a good soldier and did his duty in the first Iraq war. But he messed up and got into a fight while on leave. He put a guy in the hospital and was sued for using fighting techniques learned as a soldier. He was discharged for conduct unbecoming of an officer and lost the only job he ever cared about. The Army needs soldiers now and he can't reenlist. He had commendations and his friends say he was an unbelievable leader. He was careless and made a mistake and has to live with the fact that he can't get a decent job. Pete made a choice to be selfish. The HOF is about honor not accomplishment. He was a great ball player who made some bad decisions on the field and off.

[SAump]

Ranks right up there with "I did not have sex with that woman."

Mr. Pete Rose had a problem and baseball noticed. Pete blamed everybody around him. He blamed shoeless Joe, he blamed his business associates, he blamed his bookie, he blamed the FEDS, he blamed the IRS agents, he blamed the phone company, he blamed the lawyers, and he blamed the JUDGE. The COMISH did him a real favor before he fell victim to his own disease. It was really sad to see a man fall so far.

Mr. Rose was banned because he could not accept the treatment. Unless he stops gambling, he may still lose more than he has already. I think the COMISH really wanted to help Pete realize his problem before it was too late. Many former MLB players have been told to go away quietly and live happily ever after. Pete is one of those baseball junkies who refused to accept a good offer.

Let's not forget the release date of his next book. I wager it will be about how much he hustles during the HOF selection process.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by DG

You can't play the game like Pete did and be dumb.

Sure you can. There are plenty of dolts playing professional sports at quite a very high level. I don't equate intelligence with hitting a baseball. Sorry, I just don't.

Should he be in the Hall? I don't know. Is he stupid? Oh yeah. I was listening to him go on and on about Cooperstown on the radio a couple of nights ago. The guy's just a pantload.

I was in Cooperstown a couple of years ago, and Pete was in store selling his autograph. RIGHT IN COOPERSTOWN. I listened to his bellyaching for few minutes, and then had to take a shower. Yuk.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Doctoring a baseball, and helping organized crime bet on baseball is pretty far apart. One gets you ejected from a game, the other gets you ejected from THE GAME.

I don't like Pete because he's dumb. Just plain dumb.

Doctoring a baseball, each and every time he played, is far worse in my opinion, than a former player, now a manager, betting on baseball. I really doubt that Rose ever intentionally lost a game. He was too much of a competitor. He just liked the action of gambling. Gaylord Perry, as a player, not after his career, cheated by using Vaseline on the baseball, causing it to do unnatural movements. Many people struck out, and made other costly outs, due to Perry's grease-balls and spitters. This caused their BA's, as well as other offensive statistics to suffer directly because of his cheating.

But baseball has turned a blind eye to this. I would be willing to wager (a bit of the Captain in me) that there are players in the HOF who did drugs back in the 60's and 70's, but you'll never hear anything like that brought up. Uppers, downers, cocaine...all readily available on the training table back in the day. Where is the outrage about this?

It is long overdue to put Rose into the Hall of Fame for what he did as a baseball player, not what he did later on as a manager.

And Kyle, the fact that you don't like Pete Rose (or his intelligence level), or anyone else not liking Pete Rose, is irrelevant to the situation of his induction into the Hall of Fame. There are many unlikable players in the Hall.