What would you do?

BigUmp56 · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 01:49pm

Lets say that you're working an OBR game. You have R1 and R3. It's the bottom of the last inning with two outs. Home team is down by two runs. F1 while in his motion hangs his knee and pauses before he delivers the pitch. Now, instead of using proper mechanics for a balk you first point to the pitcher and proclaim "time that's a balk." F1 delivers the ball to the plate where the batter takes it out of the park to deep center. Do you wait to see if the defense complains that you killed the ball before you disallow the runs and try to hide from your error, or do you eat it and end up dumping the offensive coach?

Tim.

tibear · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 01:55pm

I'm sure you meant to say F1, not F2.

Anyway, as soon as an umpire says "Time". Nothing may take place, even if the umpire calls time in error.

So I would disallow the hit, move the runners up a base and continue with the game.

Sure, there will be alot of yelling and argueing. (With good reason.) However, as I indicated before, once an umpire calls time.. That's it.
Time is called. Period.

BigUmp56 · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tibear

I'm sure you meant to say F1, not F2.

Anyway, as soon as an umpire says "Time". Nothing may take place, even if the umpire calls time in error.

So I would disallow the hit, move the runners up a base and continue with the game.

Sure, there will be alot of yelling and argueing. (With good reason.) However, as I indicated before, once an umpire calls time.. That's it.
Time is called. Period.

Thanks I edited my post accordingly. My question isn't really about the rules. I think we all know that the call of time in this situation is final and cannot be undone. My question was of a more philosophical nature. Do you start to walk away since the batter just hit the apparent game winning homerun and hope the defense doesn't catch on, or do you set it right immediately.

Tim.

SanDiegoSteve · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 02:09pm

Yep, there's always the chance that somebody heard you call "Time," and if you try to BS your way around it, it can come back to bite you in the arse.

I have mistakenly called "Foul," and I know that nobody heard me above all the noise and excitement, but I had to eat the call because I knew what I had done, even if nobody else did.

tibear · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 02:18pm

When I call time everybody hear's it and if a partner call's time I repeat the call so everyone can hear.

Given that information it would be very difficult to simply walk off the field. Everyone would know that time had been called.

Now, it's not an umpire mistake, but I once had a situation where there were two outs in the last inning and the ball was hit to the shortstop who threw the ball to the first baseman but the first baseman was about six inches off the bag. The runner saw the throw beat him to the bag so he ran over the bag but NEVER touched the bag. So I simply stood there, no call to make yet. The fielders ran off the field and the BR took his helmet off and then walks toward the dugout. I wasn't sure what to do. I remember thinking do I call him out for abandoning when he gets to a certain point from first or do I simply let the game end.

I chose the later and simply let everyone go their respectful dugouts with only two official outs. Even my partner didn't catch it until I pointed it out later on the walk to the parking lot.

Dave Hensley · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 02:48pm

While there is some limited precedent for reversing a call of time, the given situation doesn't qualify, because the argument could (and surely would) be made that the pitcher let up upon hearing "time" called, and served up a meatball which is why the batter was able to jack it out.

So, you're stuck with Door # 2, which as you suggest would almost surely result in an ejection or 10. It would be a nightmare of a mistake to make, and depending on the league/level of play, could also be a career ending or career limiting mistake.

BigTex · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tibear

When I call time everybody hear's it and if a partner call's time I repeat the call so everyone can hear.

Given that information it would be very difficult to simply walk off the field. Everyone would know that time had been called.

Now, it's not an umpire mistake, but I once had a situation where there were two outs in the last inning and the ball was hit to the shortstop who threw the ball to the first baseman but the first baseman was about six inches off the bag. The runner saw the throw beat him to the bag so he ran over the bag but NEVER touched the bag. So I simply stood there, no call to make yet. The fielders ran off the field and the BR took his helmet off and then walks toward the dugout. I wasn't sure what to do. I remember thinking do I call him out for abandoning when he gets to a certain point from first or do I simply let the game end.

I chose the later and simply let everyone go their respectful dugouts with only two official outs. Even my partner didn't catch it until I pointed it out later on the walk to the parking lot.

The correct call here should have been "SAFE, OFF THE BAG!" Once the BR has passed first base, he has "acquired" it. He is then subject to be out on appeal.

Tim C · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 03:43pm

BigTex wrote:

"The correct call here should have been "SAFE, OFF THE BAG!""

I thought Evans said that whenever both teams error (i.e. base not touch by BR and F3 is off the bag) that the correct "call" would to give a "weak" safe sign and say nothing.

Did I misunderstand this . . .

Regards,

BigTex · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 04:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C

BigTex wrote:

"The correct call here should have been "SAFE, OFF THE BAG!""

I thought Evans said that whenever both teams error (i.e. base not touch by BR and F3 is off the bag) that the correct "call" would to give a "weak" safe sign and say nothing.

Did I misunderstand this . . .

Regards,

I am trying to recall Evans' methodology on this and am not sure. If you give a weak safe call and the throw obviously beat the runner, aren't you going to have a sh!t house and have to call time before F3 can go tag him. I would consider giving a "toned down" off the bag call.

Tim C · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 04:27pm

Again, I might not have this right but:

Once the batter-runner has crossed over the bag he has "legally acquired" the base if F3 was off the base as in this play. I think, therefore, the correct mechanic is signal "safe" with no verbal comment.

Any other signal or comment alerts either team unfairly.

I may be confusing this with something else all together.

Regards,

BigTex · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 04:41pm

You may be right. I am sure somebody will come along and tell both of us how they are friends with several major and minor league guys and they are going to call one of these friends and have the correct answer to us shortly.

SAump · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 05:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTex

You may be right. I am sure somebody will come along and tell both of us how they are friends with several major and minor league guys and they are going to call one of these friends and have the correct answer to us shortly.

They'll quote the authoritative Jim Evans interpretation.

BigUmp56 · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 05:50pm

Do you mean this on?

Professional umpires are trained to render the "safe" signal and voice declaration at first base even though the batter-runner missed the base but is considered past the base when the tag of first base is made. This becomes an appeal play and the batter-runner would subsequently be called out for failure to properly touch the base. This is the proper mechanical procedure at all bases involving force plays. On plays which require a tag, professional umpires are instructed to make no call until the runner legally touches the base or the runner is tagged before legally touching the base.

Tim.

DG · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 06:38pm

While this is a major screw up that I can't envision making, if I did, I would wait till the batter touched third and home and then I'm gone. If no one has said anything by then they are not gonna. I'm not going to correct this immediately.

Of course this is not a professional game, it's just an amateur game under OBR rules. So I'm not showing my hand until called. If called I will make it right and toss anybody who needs tossing.

BigTex · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 21, 2006, 07:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Do you mean this on?

Professional umpires are trained to render the "safe" signal and voice declaration at first base even though the batter-runner missed the base but is considered past the base when the tag of first base is made. This becomes an appeal play and the batter-runner would subsequently be called out for failure to properly touch the base. This is the proper mechanical procedure at all bases involving force plays. On plays which require a tag, professional umpires are instructed to make no call until the runner legally touches the base or the runner is tagged before legally touching the base.

Tim.

Please see post #7