How to prevent double calls

[bossman72]

How do you guys prevent double calls in these situations since it's not something typically gone over in a quick pregame:


1) There is obstruction on R2 going home on a fly to right after tagging up (or on any play at the plate for that matter- this play is just an example). How do you as the plate umpire not bang the runner out when he's tagged and then have to reverse yourself when he scores on the obstruction? Or if your the BU, what do you do (other than the delayed dead ball signal) to let the PU know an obstructed runner is coming home.

2) There is a missed base appeal at third or first. How do you prevent you and the other ump making different calls at the base. When the defense goes through the appeal process, do you have any little signals with your partner to say who's call it is?



Like i said originally, this isn't something that people in my assoc go over a whole lot in pregames. Do any of you cover these things in your pregame?

[umpduck11]

1) I don't make an out call on an obstructed runner, therefore there's no need to reverse the call. Why would you call an out if you know the runner's
been obstructed ?

2) Knowing which bases are which umpire's responsibility will keep this from
happening every time. It's something I go over in pre-game. No need for any
"secret" signs either. If the player appeals to my partner and it's my call, I
will call out "Bill, I've got this", that way the teams knows it's my call, not my partners.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

1) Why would you call an out if you know the runner's been obstructed ?

I'm implying that you DON'T know that the runner has been obstructed in the first situation - especially in this situation given since you have fair/foul and catch/no catch in right field

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bossman72

I'm implying that you DON'T know that the runner has been obstructed in the first situation - especially in this situation given since you have fair/foul and catch/no catch in right field

Then make the call and let your partner come in and say, "Boss -- I had obstruction. That runner scores."

It's no big deal, especially if your partner has pointed and called the obstruction when it occurred.

[canablue05]

The base umpire should be declaring obstruction loud enough for people to hear. I can see how this might be a problem in a sold out park where crowd noise could be an issue...in this case call time, communicate with your partner what you have, and then get the call right.

[DG]

As PU:

1) If the obstruction call was mine to make I can generally refrain from calling an out. If the call was my partner's then I may not know about it and will make the call at the plate that I see and we will sort it out later.

2) I normally take touches of 3b, and 1B if my partner goes out on a play in the outfield, and this will be covered in pre-game, so I don't think we will be making opposite calls. If we do, my call stands for the ones I am responsible for. Coach might not like it, but he can get over it, because he knows down deep whose call it is.

[TussAgee11]

1) I'm PU. I make my call. Even if I know the obstruction occured (unless its an auto award, which happened in the WS this year. PU made no call and just pointed at the plate scoring the runner)

2) I know which bases are mine and which aren't. Still, sometimes when the manager is calling out to appeal a certain base, its not bad to look at your partner and give a discrete point by your pant leg, or a discrete pat of the chest. But there should be no confusion anyway, I know my bases and you should know yours.

[LakeErieUmp]

Like TussAgee and Bob said, this is not a "double call". You're making the call as PU that you're supposed to make. Then your BU provides the obstruction piece that provides the award.

[LMan]

1) on a fly to right, the BU better be watching the catch, not what's going on the 3BL. So there's no chance of any 'double-calls'

on your play, how can the PU call the runner out if the ball is being caught in right field? If he's "begin tagged" then its Type A and you kill the play on the spot, no 'out' call, point him to the plate. If its Type B, you never had a chance to call him out to begin with, he scores (if the ball doesnt get to the plate before he crosses it).

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by LMan

1) on a fly to right, the BU better be watching the catch, not what's going on the 3BL. So there's no chance of any 'double-calls'

Huh? Fly balls to right (outside the V) are the PU's responsibility...

on your play, how can the PU call the runner out if the ball is being caught in right field? If he's "begin tagged" then its Type A and you kill the play on the spot, no 'out' call, point him to the plate. If its Type B, you never had a chance to call him out to begin with, he scores (if the ball doesnt get to the plate before he crosses it).

Yes, i agree this is the correct way to handle the situation, but the problem is- you as the PU are watching the catch/no catch and the fair/foul and don't see the obstruction.

But others have made it clear that you can reverse your call after the fact.

[LMan]

Yes, you are right on the V......I was off my meds for a moment, sorry. But that's why the PU lines up the play. I don't see how the PU can miss OBS on the 3BL if he's lined up correctly. Maybe he can, but then I often have trouble visualizing written 'sitches'.

I don't see 'reversing' the call here. Call it or don't. I can't see a legitimate reason for BU to call OBS on a runner that's mine. Isn't he watching the other runner (s)? If its R3 only, he's pivoting from A, can't see 3BL. If its any other sitch, he's watching other runners.

If in the Thrid World, I am PU and I don't call it, and the BU calls it from across the diamond while other runners are moving, there's a sh!tstorm a' coming.....and the BU is at the epicenter.

Least that's how my feeble mind is imperfectly operating at the moment.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by LMan

Yes, you are right on the V......I was off my meds for a moment, sorry.

If its R3 only, he's pivoting from A, can't see 3BL. If its any other sitch, he's watching other runners.

Get back on your meds quickly please. Why is BU in A with a runner on third?

[tiger49]

Originally Posted by canablue05

The base umpire should be declaring obstruction loud enough for people to hear. I can see how this might be a problem in a sold out park where crowd noise could be an issue...in this case call time, communicate with your partner what you have, and then get the call right.

According to Baseball Canada Rule Interpretation #4 the ball becomes dead the moment there is a play being made on an obstructed runner. Now I hope at a National my partners would loudly call the obstruction as well as point to the obstuction, so that we don't look like idiots with running in saying he had obstruction as I am pounding him out.

[PWL]

I don't know if anyone remembers this play from the AL playoff a few years back. Miguel Tejada of the A's was just reaching third when he was obstructed with by the Yankees third baseman. Instead of running hard all the way home, Tejada started running about half speed and pointing back at the obstruction. As I recall the PU gave the out signal as the tag was applied at the plate. The U3 made the obstruction call. Nobody seemed to get too worked up over that as the call was the correct call to make. However if the PU knew the runner was obstructed with, why was he making an out call?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

I don't know if anyone remembers this play from the AL playoff a few years back. Miguel Tejada of the A's was just reaching third when he was obstructed with by the Yankees third baseman. Instead of running hard all the way home, Tejada started running about half speed and pointing back at the obstruction. As I recall the PU gave the out signal as the tag was applied at the plate. The U3 made the obstruction call. Nobody seemed to get too worked up over that as the call was the correct call to make. However if the PU knew the runner was obstructed with, why was he making an out call?

Well, it's not the correct call to make if he saw U3's call. Perhaps the PU did not see the obstruction, and thus didn't know it had occurred. He was probably perfoming other duties like watching the ball, or watching a touch of the plate. Indeed, why would a MLB umpire call Tejada out if he saw U3 call obstruction?