That's a balk?

[SAump]

Pitcher sets rather high.
Does a rule require pitcher to bring his glove down below chin level?

Edit: Added photo link (closest thing I could find on internet) after DH's reply below.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?sl..._ny203&prov=ap

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SAump

Pitcher sets rather high.
Does a rule require pitcher to bring his glove down below chin level?

OBR - the glove has to be below "the head" interpreted to mean any part of the glove below the top of the head is legal.

FED - some part of the glove (but not all, which was the old rule) has to be below the chin.

[btdt]

Could you give me a obr rule number for that situation.
I know FED but was not aware obr had addressed the situation
Thanks

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by btdt

Could you give me a obr rule number for that situation.
I know FED but was not aware obr had addressed the situation
Thanks

8.01(b) which requires the pitcher to come set with both hands in front of his body.

[ozzy6900]

Let me toss a question in here.

Do you really think that MLB is going to call this guy for this? Please read the entire rule (I've only pasted the rule, not the casebook comments).

ORB 8.01 (b) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot. Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as “the stretch.” But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter. After assuming Set Position, any natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without alteration or interruption. Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side; from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01(b) without interruption and in one continuous motion. The pitcher, following his stretch, must (a) hold the ball in both hands in front of his body and (b) come to a complete stop. This must be enforced. Umpires should watch this closely. Pitchers are constantly attempting to “beat the rule” in their efforts to hold runners on bases and in cases where the pitcher fails to make a complete “stop” called for in the rules, the umpire should immediately call a “Balk.”

Now, Daisuke Matsuzaka (in the picture) has his hands above his head but in front of his body!

1. Remember, this is OBR, not FED.

2. We don't know if the picture (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?sl..._ny203&prov=ap) is him in the windup or the stretch.

3. Keep in mind that many Japanese pitchers still "pump" in the windup.

4. At over $51 million just to talk to the guy, MLB will do everything possible to allow him to pitch "his way".

JMHO!

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Let me toss a question in here.

Do you really think that MLB is going to call this guy for this? Please read the entire rule (I've only pasted the rule, not the casebook comments).

ORB 8.01 (b) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot. Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as “the stretch.” But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter. After assuming Set Position, any natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without alteration or interruption. Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side; from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01(b) without interruption and in one continuous motion. The pitcher, following his stretch, must (a) hold the ball in both hands in front of his body and (b) come to a complete stop. This must be enforced. Umpires should watch this closely. Pitchers are constantly attempting to “beat the rule” in their efforts to hold runners on bases and in cases where the pitcher fails to make a complete “stop” called for in the rules, the umpire should immediately call a “Balk.”

Now, Daisuke Matsuzaka (in the picture) has his hands above his head but in front of his body!

1. Remember, this is OBR, not FED.

2. We don't know if the picture (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?sl..._ny203&prov=ap) is him in the windup or the stretch.

3. Keep in mind that many Japanese pitchers still "pump" in the windup.

4. At over $51 million just to talk to the guy, MLB will do everything possible to allow him to pitch "his way".

JMHO!

You make a valid point. We know what the relevant rule is, how it is interpreted, and how the interpretation is taught in the clinics and schools, but we don't know how MLB is going to have their umpires address the issue. Whether explicit or just evolving as a custom and practice, I virtually never see the "double-set" balk called anymore, and I see plenty of "no-stop" balks I would have called that don't get called. I'm sure this one - coming set with hands not in front of the body - is ripe for being ignored, too, for the reasons you state.

[waltjp]

It's hard to tell what he's doing from the still shots. This links to a video of him in action. If you watch long enough you'll see him setting at the belt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbk-9...elated&search=

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by waltjp

It's hard to tell what he's doing from the still shots. This links to a video of him in action. If you watch long enough you'll see him setting at the belt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbk-9...elated&search=

Thanks for the video. It's just like I thought. His hands are above his head in the windup, not the set. That is going to be okay with MLB:

OBR 8.01 (a) The Windup Position. The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate and the other foot free. From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.
When a pitcher holds the ball with both hands in front of his body, with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate and his other foot free, he will be considered in the Windup Position.

The hands may be above his head but they are in front of his body! Actually, I wouldn't worry about MLB here. It's the copy cats in youth ball that we will have to deal with! Of course, in FED-landia, Daisuke Matsuzaka is a dead man!