7-8-06 Cardinals @ Astros

[jwwashburn]

I do not want my lack of confidence in Bob Davidson's judgement to color my opinion of this play.

In the bottom of the 11th, Roy Oswalt was pinch hitting with 2 outs and hit what appeared to be a double. La Russa asked for his team to appeal that Oswalt did not touch first base. Davidson called him out. The replays show that he was, at least, EXTREMELY close to the base. He did not step on top of the base, that much id for darn sure. He may or may not have touched it. Jose Cruz, Sr. was coaching first and did some gyrations and may have said something that might have influenced Davidson

Questions for those who have seen the replays or saw it live.

1) I was taught to call out a runner on an appeal of this sort ONLY if I am sure that he missed the base. Am I right in this standard? From what I can see, there is no freaking way that Davidson could be sure that Oswalt missed the base.

2) Was Davidson where he belonged on this play?

3) Are you as shocked as I am that Garner did not go out and murder Davidson?

Joe

[PatF]

I saw the game and this play. Base Ump was looking at the base, but there was no way he could see either a "touch" or "no touch" by Oswalt from where he was standing. he obsereved the play from position A. I'm not sure that moving a couple of steps into fair territory would have improved his angle on this play, but it certainly could not have hurt.

First base coach, Jose Cruz, made some sort of motions/pointing, etc. as Oswalt ran by, but not sure why or what he was trying to signal. ESPN had two different angles on the replay and it was impossible to tell for sure that Oswalt did not touch the base.

The umpire had to be influenced by the actions of Cruz. I suspect the Cards only appealed the missed base because of Cruz's actions, because it certainly appeared that Oswalt had touched the base... even in slow-mo replay.

I do not know how he could have ruled that the runer missed the base, when there was no possible way he could have seen it. He was simply guessing, and it appears that he guessed wrong. Tough call right or wrong.

[mbyron]

There are some situations where you can judge by player reaction what happened. I was taught that this is not one of them: call an out on appeal only when you saw one yourself, unmistakeably.

That said, I must say it's annoying when, all game long, I've had touches and tags at a given base, and then some coach wants an appeal. When I signal "safe" he mutters, "eh, he wasn't watching." Yeah, right coach.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by PatF

I do not know how he could have ruled that the runer missed the base, when there was no possible way he could have seen it. He was simply guessing, and it appears that he guessed wrong. Tough call right or wrong.

I say--EASY call.

Davidson did not see him miss the base so he MUST call safe!

Instead of a runner in scoring position with the leadoff batter coming up, the inning was over and the Astros lost the game in the next inning.

He had time to think it over. He KNEW he did not see Oswalt miss the base. He decided to make a horse-dookey call.

Joe

[LDUB]

Why are you guys going off on Davidson? Did you not see that the team's manager agreed with the call?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Why are you guys going off on Davidson? Did you not see that the team's manager agreed with the call?

I am a Tigers fan, I have always thought Garner was a moron, anyway.

Whether Oswalt missed the base or not is not the issue here.

The issue is that Davidson made a lousy call because he could not have known if Oswalt missed the base.

Joe

[LMan]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Whether Oswalt missed the base or not is not the issue here.

The issue is that Davidson made a lousy call because he could not have known if Oswalt missed the base.

A rat could not have said it any better (or worse as the case may be).

[SAump]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I am a Tigers fan
Joe

I follow PUDGE and DETROIT was really a terrible choice (my opinion).

Now Detroit has a manager, a solid offense and pitching. Not one, but two FLAMERS with a TAIL WHIPPING component on the end of their fastballs. That is something the Texas Rangers could never find. I bet you'll get a RISE out them if they go on to win the 2006 World Series. I have to ask. How old is your new wagon?

[LMan]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Are you as shocked as I am that Garner did not go out and murder Davidson?

In the Houston Chronicle today, it says that Garner agreed with Davidson's call.

[scottyman51]

I've had this happen before to me when i've umped. Coach argued that the runner didnt touch third,and i was stuck at home with a play coming in,and my baseump was stuck with his duties at first and second as a possible play there. Neither one of us saw it so we had to rule he did touch it because if you dont see it you have to call the guy safe,whether he was or wasnt.

Not a surprize Davidson was part of this. I dont think he's that great of an ump,i didnt see the play so i'm going off of what you guys have said but it appears he made the right call,but if he didnt see it,he should have said safe.Oh well stuff like that happens.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by LMan

In the Houston Chronicle today, it says that Garner agreed with Davidson's call.

Yeppers, think so. Still.

[mcrowder]

First, I agree that Oswalt probably did miss the base.

Second, I agree that there are calls where an umpire uses, let's call it "external input" other than his own eyes and ears to make a call. But in every clinic I've ever attended, a missed base is NOT one of those calls. This is a call that you HAVE to see to make. Davidson guessed.

Perhaps he guessed right, but that doesn't make it less of a guess.

[TussAgee11]

If you have to guess on a missed bag, he HAS to be safe.

There are times when you can use external means to make a call in sports (I know soccer is a different sport, but in the WC Final, the assistant referee definatly glanced at the JumboTron to see what happened since nobody saw it).

Do you think there's ever plays that lead umpires in the MLB to have a conference and conveniently have one positioned to be glancing at the scoreboard?

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Do you think there's ever plays that lead umpires in the MLB to have a conference and conveniently have one positioned to be glancing at the scoreboard?

They generally don't show close/controversial plays on scoreboards in the stadium. So i would say probably not in answer to your question. But it seems like a logical idea.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I do not want my lack of confidence in Bob Davidson's judgement to color my opinion of this play.

In the bottom of the 11th, Roy Oswalt was pinch hitting with 2 outs and hit what appeared to be a double. La Russa asked for his team to appeal that Oswalt did not touch first base. Davidson called him out. The replays show that he was, at least, EXTREMELY close to the base. He did not step on top of the base, that much id for darn sure. He may or may not have touched it. Jose Cruz, Sr. was coaching first and did some gyrations and may have said something that might have influenced Davidson

Questions for those who have seen the replays or saw it live.

1) I was taught to call out a runner on an appeal of this sort ONLY if I am sure that he missed the base. Am I right in this standard? From what I can see, there is no freaking way that Davidson could be sure that Oswalt missed the base.

2) Was Davidson where he belonged on this play?

3) Are you as shocked as I am that Garner did not go out and murder Davidson?

Joe

Perhaps Garner had no idea just how close the Astros would come.
Perhaps LaRussa did.