Whoa was I out of position...

[TussAgee11]

Happened this weekend. AAU 17U game.

Runner on 2nd, takes off with the pitch. I start to move towards 3rd base as the pitch is in the air.

The ball is then hit a little bit behind where I was (kind of towards C). I thought it was hard hit, turned out it was a bit more of a dribbler. I opted to stay to the 3rd base side of the ball, and let F6 make his play.

F6 came in and threw to first, I did my best to take 4 or 5 steps towards 1st but I was still on the other side of the diamond. Of course the "get in position to make that call" chirping came, but whatever.

My question is, should a BU in "C" move before the pitch is caught to get a steal of 3rd? Or is my situation just one of the compromises of the two man?

[BigUmp56]

Of course you shouldn't be moving until the pitch is caught by F2 or struck by the batter.


Tim.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Of course you shouldn't be moving until the pitch is caught by F2 or struck by the batter.


Tim.

You're kidding, right?

I'm off the instant I know R2 is stealing, moving towards the midpoint of the baseline between home and third. How could you possibly get any kind of an angle if you wait for F2 to catch the ball?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Of course you shouldn't be moving until the pitch is caught by F2 or struck by the batter.


Tim.

17U? I think it's safe to say we're talking 90' diamond here not LL mechanics. If you aren't moving before the ball reaches the catcher, you're not gaining either angle or distance on this play.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

You're kidding, right?

I'm off the instant I know R2 is stealing, moving towards the midpoint of the baseline between home and third. How could you possibly get any kind of an angle if you wait for F2 to catch the ball?

It doesn't make sense to me to committ to moving before I know if the ball is going to be put in play or not.


Tim.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It doesn't make sense to me to committ to moving before I know if the ball is going to be put in play or not.


Tim.

On this move, one does not take his eye off the ball. He just begins his move to get anqle and distance on the steal. Adjustments can be made for hit, or wild pitch or whatever happens.

I don't believe any reputable clinic, camp or proschool teaches otherwise.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by GarthB

On this move, one does not take his eye off the ball. He just begins his move to get anqle and distance on the steal. Adjustments can be made for hit, or wild pitch or whatever happens.

I don't believe any reputable clinic, camp or proschool teaches otherwise.

This is what I have on pdf. file from Baseball Canada. I believe this models the PBUC mechanic.


Runner in scoring position; steal of third.

Base Umpire……should make sure the runner is going by shoulder-checking over his right shoulder. If the runner goes, read the catcher’s throw, move to the play, get a 90 degree angle to the slide, get set and make the call. Do not get too close or cheat on this play or you will be out of position. React to the appropriate.
base.

Tim.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

This is what I have on pdf. file from Baseball Canada. I believe this models the PBUC mechanic.


Runner in scoring position; steal of third.

Base Umpire……should make sure the runner is going by shoulder-checking over his right shoulder. If the runner goes, read the catcher’s throw, move to the play, get a 90 degree angle to the slide, get set and make the call. Do not get too close or cheat on this play or you will be out of position. React to the appropriate.
base.

Tim.

Admittedly, I don't own any Canadian mechanics manuals. I also have not been to PBUC, so I cannot say if they mimic this Canadian mechanic. I can only say that this was not what was taught at Evans Desert Classic, and I don't believe Evans teaches one thing at his Classic and another at the 5 Week.

If you wait for the the throw, provided you are appropriately positoned prior to the play, you will not gain any where's near a 90 on this play, unless, of course you're working little boy ball. Runners who steal at the older levels move quickly.

[BigUmp56]

So how do you begin to move then. Do you just take a few slide steps to your right as the ball approaches the batter?

Tim.

[Tim C]

OK, umpire school twice, three MLB three day clinics, five college CCA camps, teach at various clinics and local assocaiton camps:

It has always been taught to start to move towards the impending play the instant you read the steal. As noted, catch the movement over your shoulder, while still watching the hitter move to your calling position.

If you wait the pitch to be completed you'll get about two steps in big boy ball and will proably get to work a lot of JV.

Regards,

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

So how do you begin to move then. Do you just take a few slide steps to your right as the ball approaches the batter?

Tim.

No. Moving parallel to the runner keeps the angle the same and puts you in position to be looking up the runner's butt on the play.

I begin by stepping forward, opening the angle, and then let the throw, if it ocurrs to take me to the play, this time moving towards the mid point on the 3BL between third and home.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Admittedly, I don't own any Canadian mechanics manuals. I also have not been to PBUC, so I cannot say if they mimic this Canadian mechanic. I can only say that this was not what was taught at Evans Desert Classic, and I don't believe Evans teaches one thing at his Classic and another at the 5 Week.

If you wait for the the throw, provided you are appropriately positoned prior to the play, you will not gain any where's near a 90 on this play, unless, of course you're working little boy ball. Runners who steal at the older levels move quickly.

Really? I was always taught to wait until the ball is caught, and I was taught right here in the good old USA. I thought we were never to anticipate a play, and to let the play take us where we're supposed to be. I have never had trouble getting over and getting an angle.

What if it was a delayed double steal? You would be hung out to dry if the catcher were to throw to 2nd. How about a snap throw behind the runner at 1st? Then you're on the other side of the field running the wrong direction.

I have never seen an umpire leave his position before the ball was caught, EVER!!!! Why would you even assume there was going to be a throw at all? All you need to do is take 3 or 4 quick strides toward the midpoint of the baseline, turn and pivot, set, and you are right there for the play. It does not require leaving your position prior to the catch. That sounds like a sure fire recipe for ending up out of position.

[UmpJM]

Tim & Steve,

From the PBUC "Two-Umpire" Manual (original emphasis):

...
The base umpire should begin his reaction to this play when he realizes the runner is attempting to steal 3rd. However, the umpire should be aware of the fact that the ball may be hit or that a check swing is possible, and react accordingly. He should break towards an imaginary 45-foot line along the 3rd base line and move so far as he can in that direction but yet be completely stopped and set for the play at 3rd base.

...

JM

[TussAgee11]

Thanks JM, from those out of the house and not carrying their, as Steve from Blue's Clue's Would say... "handy dandy rusty trusty, MANUALS"!

[SanDiegoSteve]

JM,

"Begin his reaction" does not mean "take off running" the way I see it. Sure, I begin my reaction by saying to myself, "he's going, now what?" There may not be a play at 3rd at all. The catcher may fake a throw to 3rd, then throw to get the trail runner at 2nd. I see this happen all the time. I have taken at the most, 1 false step toward 3rd, and can recover in time to get a good position for the play at 2nd. If I take off with the runner, I'm guaranteed to look like an idiot when the play ends up being at 2nd base.