"real umpires"

[fwump]

I've read numerous threads on this site debating the differences between so called "LL" or "small diamond baseball" umpires verses "real" umpires who call on 90' diamonds with shaving aged players.

I propose this: If you have the skill sets and the training to be successful at the HS, college or adult level, then you will perform well on any size diamond regardless. All other debate on the subject is pretty much useless.

I have been at it for over eight years now, calling youth, senior league, HS and NABA. (NO LL for me, I like getting paid). I can confirm through experience that there are terrible umpires out there at ALL levels of baseball. And some of the worst are calling HS JV. (At least down here in north TX).

However, if you have not, for whatever reason, worked higher level baseball at at least HS varsity level or above, then you will never gain the right to proclaim yourself a "real" umpire. I do not consider myself there yet. Thats why I lurk here to try and learn something.

Just my opinion

Mike

[SanDiegoSteve]

And what about those umpires who are trained well, and work Varsity HS baseball, and also choose to work any level of baseball presented to them, just because it's baseball?

I began working Varsity in my second season, and that's all I worked as far as HS went. But I also would work any lower youth ball level, adult semi-pro leagues, collegiate wood bat leagues, and any other games that I was assigned, including Little League (which pays $40 for Majors here, BTW) because I love baseball, and I don't care what level game it is.

I still can't figure out why the line seems to be drawn at Varsity HS to be a real umpire. HS ball is not at all difficult to umpire. I'm sorry, it just isn't! I would argue more that none of us are real umpires unless we are working MLB. Those guys don't consider us real umpires, any more than we consider Little League umpires to be real umpires.

So, unless I see you on Sports Center every night, don't consider yourself a real umpire. I worked Varsity steadily from 1987 through 2005, and I still am not a real umpire. Damn.

[fwump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

And what about those umpires who are trained well, and work Varsity HS baseball, and also choose to work any level of baseball presented to them, just because it's baseball?

I began working Varsity in my second season, and that's all I worked as far as HS went. But I also would work any lower youth ball level, adult semi-pro leagues, collegiate wood bat leagues, and any other games that I was assigned, including Little League (which pays $40 for Majors here, BTW) because I love baseball, and I don't care what level game it is.

I still can't figure out why the line seems to be drawn at Varsity HS to be a real umpire. HS ball is not at all difficult to umpire. I'm sorry, it just isn't! I would argue more that none of us are real umpires unless we are working MLB. Those guys don't consider us real umpires, any more than we consider Little League umpires to be real umpires.

So, unless I see you on Sports Center every night, don't consider yourself a real umpire. I worked Varsity steadily from 1987 through 2005, and I still am not a real umpire. Damn.

Perhaps you are correct Steve. None of us amateur umpires are "real umpires" because of the simple fact that it isn't our career. I just tend to make HS varsity the bar. I agree that it isn't that difficult. I would argue that in alot of cases doing youth ball can be more diffucult than HS. But HS varsity is the first amateur level that has coaches who usually have a firm grasp of the rules, players who tend to play at a high level of skill, and where the games can mean something.

Mike

[UmpJM]

fwump/Mike,

I believe you are missing the point of those who, on occasion, make disparaging remarks regarding "LL umpires".

By way of analogy, I am not a "real" coach. While I've never coached an "official" LL team, the highest level team I've ever coached is 15U Travel ball. While it's been quite a while since I've coached on a 60' diamond, I've never coached a team that played on a 90' diamond. (The last four years, my teams have played on an 80' diamond.) So, for all intents and purposes (or is that "intensive porpoises"?), I am a "LL coach".

For me, coaching is an avocation that I enjoy and put a lot of time & effort into; but what I don't know about coaching probably vastly exceeds what I do know about coaching. And yet, the people whose children I coach generally consider me a very good coach, are delighted to have their children play on a team I am coaching, and are amazed at how much I know about baseball. Having said that, it would strike me as ludicrously self-delusional to think that I was "good/real" enough to coach a HS Varsity (or JV, for that matter) team.

Don't get me wrong. I could do it tomorrow. I would "get through it" and survive. And, I am confident that there are countless Varsity/JV HS coaches across this great country of ours who are not doing as good a job as I would do - tomorrow. But, that would not make me a "real" coach. Because I am also confident that there are countless JV/Varsity HS coaches across this great country that I am not even in the same league with. Probably not even the same game.

As I moved from a 60' to a 70' to an 80' diamond as a coach, I was continually amazed at how little I knew about coaching the game at the new level I had moved to. Much like parenting children, you don't know what you don't know until you are put in the position of having to deal with it. And you cannot be good at it until you HAVE dealt with it - and then, only if you ARE good at it.

Though I personally have no experience to back this up, I suspect umpiring is much the same. And I believe this is in the neighborhood of the "point" being raised in the "real umpire" posts.

If you have not had the experience of moving through the progression of "levels" of umpiring, neither you nor anyone else knows if you are a "real" umpire. If you have moved through that progression you may or may not be a "real" umpire; you may not know yourself. (Don't kid yourself that having "done" it and survived makes you a "real" umpire.) But, I assure you, somebody does. If you have progressed, & have become a "real" umpire, choosing to umpire "kiddie ball" does NOT detract from your "realness" - it's simply a personal choice as to whether you so choose or not.

No special kudos to those who so chose, no condemnation for those who choose otherwise.

I have seen two people who post in this forum umpire baseball games (I was NOT coaching). They both looked like "real" umpires to me. Occasionally, I get an umpire who looks pretty "real" to me at a game where I am coaching. When I do, I think it makes the whole game better for everyone.

Stop worrying about who thinks you are and are not a "real" umpire & just do everything you can to become one. It's not about the level or the size of the field or the age of the players - it's about the umpiring.

Of course, I'm just a dumb "kiddie ball" coach, so I could be completely wrong about all this.

JM

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

While I've never coached an "official" LL team, the highest level team I've ever coached is 15U Travel ball. While it's been quite a while since I've coached on a 60' diamond, I've never coached a team that played on a 90' diamond. (The last four years, my teams have played on an 80' diamond.) So, for all intents and purposes (or is that "intensive porpoises"?), I am a "LL coach".


JM

I find it curious, coach, that 15U travel teams, in your area, plays on 80' bases. I have worked several 15U travel tournaments and have never seen them play on anything less that 90' bases.

Here, 15 is the age of JV and some Frosh players. During the summer, they either play on Legion teams or select travel. The last time any of them stepped foot on a 80' basepath was when they were 13.

Is it common elsewhere for 15 year olds to play on 80' diamonds?

[UmpJM]

Garth,

One of the travel leagues I coach in allows (baseball age) 15 year olds, who have just completed 8th grade, to play in the 80' league in the summer. Entering HS Freshman "Fall Ball" & "regular" 15U is played on a 90' diamond. I've never coached one of those teams.

JM

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by fwump

However, if you have not, for whatever reason, worked higher level baseball at at least HS varsity level or above, then you will never gain the right to proclaim yourself a "real" umpire.

Unless OJ was quoted saying something recently, this may qualify for some sort of prize.

[Tim C]

Actually he is on the "right" road here.

No matter what you think:

No "real" umpire has worked small diamond ball only.

In my opinion, which I do not have to defend to anyone, small diamond umpires are not "real" umpires. They are nothing more than inexpensive baby sitters.

In fact, we are getting more close to the definition of "real baseball umpires" than ever before . . .

I don't expect you to agree . . . in fact I expect an agressive answer . . . that does not make you correct.

Regards,

[SanDiegoSteve]

Your opinion, which you do not have to defend to anyone, really bites.

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I still can't figure out why the line seems to be drawn at Varsity HS to be a real umpire. HS ball is not at all difficult to umpire. I'm sorry, it just isn't! I would argue more that none of us are real umpires unless we are working MLB.

Hey all,

To be perfectly honest, this is the best definition of a "real umpire" I have seen or heard yet.

I am not a real umpire by this train of thought, and never will be, according to some, but I will continue to be the best "unreal umpire" that I can be.

LomUmp

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Your opinion, which you do not have to defend to anyone, really bites.

Yeah but guys like you do "real" baseball and drop to the small diamond for a little "fun". You don't live on the small diamond!

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Yeah but guys like you do "real" baseball and drop to the small diamond for a little "fun". You don't live on the small diamond!

Actually, come tournament time I look at getting in some small diamond games as a break from some of the attitudes we deal with when we're working the bigger players. I get a kick out of hearing players say "we've got real umpires today."


Tim.

[fwump]

I believe this is an apt analogy: You wish to learn to fly an airplane. First you read some manuals and perhaps some books or articles about flying. You make a trip to the airport where you find a good instructor to mentor you through the process. After perhaps 70-80 hours of dual time you finally solo the airplane. Finally when your instructor decides that you are ready he calls out the check airman who gives you your check ride. If you don’t blow it he signs your ticket. Hey I’m a “real” pilot now! Hardly. All you have is a license to learn. Now you get in that airplane as often as you can until you master the skills you need to be a real pilot. You accomplish this by practice, practice, and more practice, along with continued training. Those who go out every other weekend and putter around in their single engine 2 seater only if the weather is sky clear are just "smitty" in an airplane.

Mike

[bob jenkins]

Someone, Evans perhaps, lists the four stages of umpires:

1) You suck, but don't know it.

2) You suck, and you know it.

3) You don't suck, but you don't know it.

4) You don't suck, and you know it.

"Real Umpires" are those trying to moving through stages 2 - 4 (and those stages exist at all levels -- someone could be in stage 4 for HS ball, but stage 2 for college ball).

"LL Umpires" are those stuck in stage 1 (or 2 if they know it but don't care).

While "LL Umpires" can exist at all levels, IMO, there are a higher percentage in youth ball than at other levels -- youth ball seems to allow those at stage 1 and 2 to stick around more than HS or higher ball.

[David B]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

And what about those umpires who are trained well, and work Varsity HS baseball, and also choose to work any level of baseball presented to them, just because it's baseball?

I began working Varsity in my second season, and that's all I worked as far as HS went. But I also would work any lower youth ball level, adult semi-pro leagues, collegiate wood bat leagues, and any other games that I was assigned, including Little League (which pays $40 for Majors here, BTW) because I love baseball, and I don't care what level game it is.

I still can't figure out why the line seems to be drawn at Varsity HS to be a real umpire. HS ball is not at all difficult to umpire. I'm sorry, it just isn't! I would argue more that none of us are real umpires unless we are working MLB. Those guys don't consider us real umpires, any more than we consider Little League umpires to be real umpires.

So, unless I see you on Sports Center every night, don't consider yourself a real umpire. I worked Varsity steadily from 1987 through 2005, and I still am not a real umpire. Damn.

Maybe its easy to umpire Hs games in your area, but when I was in TX and where I am now there is a huge difference in "small ball" and HS ball.

There is a huge difference in what is expected of an umpire even from JV Varsity to HS varsity.

We have coaches who know real umpires and not real umpires. The ones that are not for real get eat for lunch.

Its JMO of course, but if I find an umpire taking it easy, then he's coasting and not going to umpire any big games in our association.

There's simply too much at stake especially once district season starts. One game can make a difference in whether a team makes the playoffs or not and umpires can make a difference in that game.

Thansk
David