"real umpires"

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Your opinion, which you do not have to defend to anyone, really bites.

Yeah but guys like you do "real" baseball and drop to the small diamond for a little "fun". You don't live on the small diamond!

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Yeah but guys like you do "real" baseball and drop to the small diamond for a little "fun". You don't live on the small diamond!

Actually, come tournament time I look at getting in some small diamond games as a break from some of the attitudes we deal with when we're working the bigger players. I get a kick out of hearing players say "we've got real umpires today."


Tim.

[fwump]

I believe this is an apt analogy: You wish to learn to fly an airplane. First you read some manuals and perhaps some books or articles about flying. You make a trip to the airport where you find a good instructor to mentor you through the process. After perhaps 70-80 hours of dual time you finally solo the airplane. Finally when your instructor decides that you are ready he calls out the check airman who gives you your check ride. If you don’t blow it he signs your ticket. Hey I’m a “real” pilot now! Hardly. All you have is a license to learn. Now you get in that airplane as often as you can until you master the skills you need to be a real pilot. You accomplish this by practice, practice, and more practice, along with continued training. Those who go out every other weekend and putter around in their single engine 2 seater only if the weather is sky clear are just "smitty" in an airplane.

Mike

[bob jenkins]

Someone, Evans perhaps, lists the four stages of umpires:

1) You suck, but don't know it.

2) You suck, and you know it.

3) You don't suck, but you don't know it.

4) You don't suck, and you know it.

"Real Umpires" are those trying to moving through stages 2 - 4 (and those stages exist at all levels -- someone could be in stage 4 for HS ball, but stage 2 for college ball).

"LL Umpires" are those stuck in stage 1 (or 2 if they know it but don't care).

While "LL Umpires" can exist at all levels, IMO, there are a higher percentage in youth ball than at other levels -- youth ball seems to allow those at stage 1 and 2 to stick around more than HS or higher ball.

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Someone, Evans perhaps, lists the four stages of umpires:

1) You suck, but don't know it.

2) You suck, and you know it.

3) You don't suck, but you don't know it.

4) You don't suck, and you know it.

"Real Umpires" are those trying to moving through stages 2 - 4 (and those stages exist at all levels -- someone could be in stage 4 for HS ball, but stage 2 for college ball).

"LL Umpires" are those stuck in stage 1 (or 2 if they know it but don't care).

While "LL Umpires" can exist at all levels, IMO, there are a higher percentage in youth ball than at other levels -- youth ball seems to allow those at stage 1 and 2 to stick around more than HS or higher ball.

Now that's well stated Bob. Having to save this post for future reference and in training...

Thanks
David

[GarthB]

Bob:

You brought back memories. From my journal, here is Jim's version of the "Four Stages of Learning":

1. Unconscious Incompetence

You're horsesh!t and you don't know it.

2. Conscious Incompetence

You're horsesh!t and you know it.

3. Conscious Competence

You're competent, but you need to think about what you are doing while performing.

4. Unconscious competence.

You're competent and don't need to think about it, you just do it.

An simple example of this in action:

1. First stage umpires don't utilize the three possible positions for each play because they don't know what they are.

2. Second stage umpires know the three possible positions, but don't use them.

3. Third stage umpires use the three possible positions but have to remind themselves what they are.

4. Fourth stage umpires instinctively utilize the three positions.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by fwump

After perhaps 70-80 hours of dual time you finally solo the airplane.
Mike

If it took you that long to solo, you should look for a different hobby

[fwump]

Originally Posted by Justme

If it took you that long to solo, you should look for a different hobby

Its been a long time ago. Now that I think back it took 70-80 hours to get the airman's certificate. Solo was long before. I did take up a new hobby. Umpiring!

Mike

[fwump]

Originally Posted by PWL

If fw stands for Fort Worth and you umpired in NABA, I wouldn't think that qualifies you as a skilled umpire. I've played over there for years, and I can count the "decent" umpires on one hand. J.D. takes what he can get for the most part. If he didn't, we wouldn't have anybody. Most of the them just take their cash and want to get in and get out ASAP.

The answer is yes and yes. I started calling for JD just this year and you are correct...there are about a half dozen "decent" guys in his group. I consider myself among those. And yes most take their cash and want to get out as quick as possible. But that could be because most of the time its really bad baseball. And its awfully hot in July.

Mike

[Justme]

Originally Posted by fwump

The answer is yes and yes. I started calling for JD just this year and you are correct...there are about a half dozen "decent" guys in his group. I consider myself among those. And yes most take their cash and want to get out as quick as possible. But that could be because most of the time its really bad baseball. And its awfully hot in July.

Mike

Ahhhhh, failure has many excuses!

[David B]

Originally Posted by fwump

The answer is yes and yes. I started calling for JD just this year and you are correct...there are about a half dozen "decent" guys in his group. I consider myself among those. And yes most take their cash and want to get out as quick as possible. But that could be because most of the time its really bad baseball. And its awfully hot in July.

Mike

Wow how things have changed. When I lived and worked in FWorth it was probably the best group of umpires in the north part of the state.

Most of the guys who worked HS also worked college and it was incredible baseball especially in the summer when all the college guys returned to play and improve their games.

You either had to be good or you didn't get to call the games - everyone else was left to call the pony and colt league games.

Of course that was 20 years ago, but still sad to see.

Thanks
David

[Tim C]

We already know what Minor League umpires think of any non-professional umpires.

They made themselves VERY clear on several umpire webiste during their much maligned "strike".

I respect your right to express your personal opinion.

AS I have stated before: "Real umpires work real baseball."

I don't buy either your logic or opinion and that is what makes this fun.

Regards,

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

AS I have stated before: "Real umpires work real baseball."

So, where are you drawing the line for the definition of "real umpires?"

Do you not agree that those at a higher level than you would not consider you a "real umpire?"

I mean, you had a cup of coffee in the bigs, but you don't work those games regularly, so where do you stand on the "real umpire" ladder?

[Justme]

[QUOTE=Tim C]
I don't buy either your logic or opinion and that is what makes this fun.
/QUOTE]

We do agree on one thing Tim, our right to disagree on the board does make this fun