Cano-to-Wilson play at 1B

[greymule]

Surely someone saw the play just now in the Yankees-Tigers game. Robinson Cano made a fine play on a ground ball in the hole, and his throw drew Yankee F3 Guiel into the baseline behind the bag. The throw was just barely in time to get the BR, who collided (unavoidably) with Guiel and knocked him down immediately after he gloved the throw. Both players went down. The 1B umpire delayed his out call, apparently after checking to see that Wilson had held the ball.

The time between the ball hitting the glove and the runner hitting F3 looked like about a tenth of a second. I was almost hoping Guiel would drop the ball to see what the call would have been. This seemed to me a perfect example of that often-discussed ambiguity involving immediate collisions after "outs" at 1B.

Anybody else see it?

(Sorry—the original subject should have said Guiel, not Wilson.)

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by greymule

Surely someone saw the play just now in the Yankees-Tigers game. Robinson Cano made a fine play on a ground ball in the hole, and his throw drew Yankee F3 Guiel into the baseline behind the bag. The throw was just barely in time to get the BR, who collided (unavoidably) with Guiel and knocked him down immediately after he gloved the throw. Both players went down. The 1B umpire delayed his out call, apparently after checking to see that Wilson had held the ball.

The time between the ball hitting the glove and the runner hitting F3 looked like about a tenth of a second. I was almost hoping Guiel would drop the ball to see what the call would have been. This seemed to me a perfect example of that often-discussed ambiguity involving immediate collisions after "outs" at 1B.

Anybody else see it?

(Sorry—the original subject should have said Guiel, not Wilson.)

I saw it and noticed the delay.

It also looked like Casey gave a double forearm shivver, more than just an unavoidable collision, although there was going to be a collision no matter what.

[greymule]

If that collision had knocked the ball loose, do you still have an out?

[Kaliix]

By rule, you have an out, and then most likely ejections afterward. (as T pointed out in another thread)

If the preferred path is the one of least resistance, then you call him safe...

Oh, and let me add that I hope Casey gets drilled by a Johnson fastball tomorrow for that play and the slide into Jeter when the ball beat him by two steps.... IMHO

Originally Posted by greymule

If that collision had knocked the ball loose, do you still have an out?

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Kaliix

By rule, you have an out, and then most likely ejections afterward. (as T pointed out in another thread)

If the preferred path is the one of least resistance, then you call him safe...

Oh, and let me add that I hope Casey gets drilled by a Johnson fastball tomorrow for that play and the slide into Jeter when the ball beat him by two steps.... IMHO

Kaliix - are you a Yankee fan??? It seems if the Yankees do these same types of things you described it is good hard nosed baseball and if someone else does it, it is dirty baseball!

[Kaliix]

I am a Yankee fan yes, but I am not blind to what my team does and I try to call it straight even if it doesn't benefit the Yankees.

When Casey slid into Jeter, he was out by two steps and could of just slid into the bag and took his out. Instead he slide away from the bag and into Jeter's legs. I got no problem with him doing that on a double play, but this was him trying to advance on a loose ball.

Then Casey brings his arms up and tries to plow through Wilson at first after already being out. I don't mind the contact so much as the way he did it.

Twice in one game should get him a Johnson fastball in the back. Got to protect your players from that kind of stuff. IMHO

Originally Posted by RonRef

Kaliix - are you a Yankee fan??? It seems if the Yankees do these same types of things you described it is good hard nosed baseball and if someone else does it, it is dirty baseball!

[mick]

Originally Posted by Kaliix

Oh, and let me add that I hope Casey gets drilled by a Johnson fastball tomorrow for that play and the slide into Jeter when the ball beat him by two steps.... IMHO

Aw, Kaliix,
Sean Casey doesn't run fast enough to hurt anybody.

[UMP25]

Indeed, as evidenced last week against the White Sox by his being thrown out on his way to first by a 5-7-3 putout.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by greymule

If that collision had knocked the ball loose, do you still have an out?

The way you worded that, YES, you have an out. If the collision "knocked the ball loose", then by definition the ball was not loose at the moment the out was made.

The problem on this play, though, and I suspect the reason the out call was no immediate, is that it happened so close together that U1 was not positive the ball was actually caught in the first place until after he saw F3 with possession after the collision.

In other words, if there was a collision like this one and the ball DID come loose, it is altogether likely that F3 did NOT have possession at any point, thus no out.

Picking nits? Yeah, probably, but it's the right call.