Cano-to-Guiel play at 1B
 

Surely someone saw the play just now in the Yankees-Tigers game. Robinson Cano made a fine play on a ground ball in the hole, and his throw drew Yankee F3 Guiel into the baseline behind the bag. The throw was just barely in time to get the BR, who collided (unavoidably) with Guiel and knocked him down immediately after he gloved the throw. Both players went down. The 1B umpire delayed his out call, apparently after checking to see that Wilson had held the ball.

The time between the ball hitting the glove and the runner hitting F3 looked like about a tenth of a second. I was almost hoping Guiel would drop the ball to see what the call would have been. This seemed to me a perfect example of that often-discussed ambiguity involving immediate collisions after "outs" at 1B.

Anybody else see it?

(Sorry—the original subject should have said Guiel, not Wilson.)

I saw it and noticed the delay.

It also looked like Casey gave a double forearm shivver, more than just an unavoidable collision, although there was going to be a collision no matter what.

If that collision had knocked the ball loose, do you still have an out?

By rule, you have an out, and then most likely ejections afterward. (as T pointed out in another thread)

If the preferred path is the one of least resistance, then you call him safe...

Oh, and let me add that I hope Casey gets drilled by a Johnson fastball tomorrow for that play and the slide into Jeter when the ball beat him by two steps.... IMHO

Kaliix - are you a Yankee fan??? It seems if the Yankees do these same types of things you described it is good hard nosed baseball and if someone else does it, it is dirty baseball!

Aw, Kaliix,
Sean Casey doesn't run fast enough to hurt anybody.

Indeed, as evidenced last week against the White Sox by his being thrown out on his way to first by a 5-7-3 putout.

Also, yesterday Casey was thrown out by 5 days on his way to second on a passed ball.:)

The way you worded that, YES, you have an out. If the collision "knocked the ball loose", then by definition the ball was not loose at the moment the out was made.

The problem on this play, though, and I suspect the reason the out call was no immediate, is that it happened so close together that U1 was not positive the ball was actually caught in the first place until after he saw F3 with possession after the collision.

In other words, if there was a collision like this one and the ball DID come loose, it is altogether likely that F3 did NOT have possession at any point, thus no out.

Picking nits? Yeah, probably, but it's the right call.

I believe, BTW, that the 5-7-3 putout of Casey was the first ever in MLB, according to the brain trusts at ESPN's Baseball Tonight.

I didn't see this - can someone describe what happened? Was 7 playing in and the ball deflected to him? Or did Casey simply not run out a routine grounder and F5 decide to show him up.

I remember the Astros showing up a runner once when someone didn't run out a routine grounder. F5 (Garner I believe) lobbed the ball to the pitcher (Ruhle, I believe), who lobbed it to 1st base (could have been Howe). This Casey thing could have been similar.

Casey hit a line drive to 3B Joe Crede, who jumped to catch the ball; however, he couldn't hold on to it as the ball fell off his glove and rolled into left field. Casey thought the ball was caught (there's a rumor going around that A.J. Pierzynski yelled, "Nice catch, Joe!") and stopped and turned in disgust. Suddenly he then began to run, but left fielder Pablo Ozuna had picked up the rolling ball and fired a rocket to first base to nail Casey in a wacker (and yes, it was close, but he was out).

Weird.

That's a cool play. The part about Pierzynski would be in character (from what I know), but could be apocryphal.

Someone mentioned a double forearm shivver by BR going into F3. I had that in a tourney game once and ejected the BR. Coach complained that he was "just trying to protect himself," but I think I would do that by sticking out my hands to absorb the blow, rather than lower my shoulder and go into the guy.

Comments?

I am a Yankee fan yes, but I am not blind to what my team does and I try to call it straight even if it doesn't benefit the Yankees.

When Casey slid into Jeter, he was out by two steps and could of just slid into the bag and took his out. Instead he slide away from the bag and into Jeter's legs. I got no problem with him doing that on a double play, but this was him trying to advance on a loose ball.

Then Casey brings his arms up and tries to plow through Wilson at first after already being out. I don't mind the contact so much as the way he did it.

Twice in one game should get him a Johnson fastball in the back. Got to protect your players from that kind of stuff. IMHO

Personally, I never understood why putting a guy on base was some form of retribution, but I'm Canadian. What do I know? We just drop the gloves and punch people in the face :)