Larry - assuming your signature is correct, and you really do call NCAA softball and LL Baseball, surely you recognize a significant difference in the games. Heck, I call them different sports. You (as I assume you know) really have to truly have a different mindset in each game.

However ... all of that said - unless you're working youth ball or calling an eephus pitch, you are going to have trouble advancing if you consistently call a pitch that you perceive as skimming the bottom of the zone before bouncing into the catcher's glove a strike. Seriously. I work mostly upper level FED and ASA softball but have filled in at NCAA level - I can't remember calling a bounce-pitch a strike at that level. I also suspect that if you did, and then saw that pitch on tape, you'd realize it was actually low.

You can be forgiven when you call a hittable ball outside the zone a strike. You might get yelled at by the coach, but you're not going to damage your career. And if you are consistent with it, they will swing at it. But when you call an UNhittable ball outside the zone a strike, you're going to hear about it from every angle, and possibly hurt your career if you don't correct this error.

I gave one poster a hard time far above for making the blanket statement that ALL bouncers are non-strikes, trying to point out that at 10U or even bad 12U (either baseball or softball), you will have MANY bouncing strikes. But above this level, it should not happen. And while you may defend your position that "if it goes through the zone, it's a strike", I would maintain that the physics of the situation dictate that if it bounced, it was almost definitely NOT actually in the zone. Another good use of film if you are calling these pitches strikes - take a look at what your pitch looks like from another angle and you may agree that you are missing these pitches.

I'm not going to freak out or anything, I'm just going to try to respond to your opinion with a little bit of my reasoning.

If a pitch passes through the strike zone but is caught in an unorthodox manner (ie bounces into F2's mitt, caught with F2's mitt on the ground, ect.), I will not call said pitch a strike. My reasoning is not so much based on advancement, but on trying not to have a $#!thouse in my game.

Everyone (F1, F2, Batter, Both managers and my pard) expect that I 'ball' this pitch. If I do call a strike (which by rule is the correct call), I plant a seed of doubt in everyones mind about my ability. Next thing you know, belt high, waist-one pitches on 0-2 counts that are 8" outside but are hitting their spots that I 'ball' are now bringing heat because I called that bouncing pitch that appears to have been low a strike. Next inning the ball beats the runner to the plate but F2 misses the tag, the coach is already convinced that I suck, so here he comes! Now I run him and I'm up 'til 1:00 a.m. filling out a report, all because I called a strike on that pitch that bounced into F2's glove.

If you believe it's better to call it a strike, more power to ya! Not me. No thanks, I'll stick to balling that one every time...;)

I don't do baseball - period. I have filled in on occasion but it's been several years. I agree, different sports. This has now become a softball thread and we should probably spare the guys in this forum, but hey, they are big boys and can handle it.

If you call the levels you claim in softball and haven't seen a change-up that can cross the strike zone and be caught at the catcher's feet you aren't seeing good pitching. With dropballs and change up's coming from 43' it's very conceivable. I find it funny you talk about me having trouble advancing. I have not been at this as long as many people - I still am learning, trust me on that. I've only been an umpire for 6 years. I'm in 2 DII conferences and fill in for some DI. You are acting like it's something that I claim happens every inning or every game - but if the ball passes through the strike zone (in softball) it is a strike. How can you call it anything else? How do you explain that to the coach that says "it was in the strike zone" - do you say "Yep, but it bounced!" That might fly in baseball, but not in softball.

Last time I checked, a ball that passes through the strike zone is a hittable ball. According to your theory, if a curve ball hits the corner and ends up 8 inches outside of the zone, it's a ball - right? I mean the same principle has to apply. I would guess, according the theory given here there are no corners to a strike zone.

So now you are a physics teacher? Again, I say if you have never seen this happen, you aren't working high level softball. They are constantly wanting to scratch the outer limits of the zone and have the ball quickly run out of the zone. That's pitching.

I'll keep calling them my way and you keep calling them your way and if we ever meet, we'll argue it over a cold one!:D

This is a strike because it's expected to be called a strike. It looks like a strike to everyone. That's the difference.

Larry, Larry, Larry
 

No one has said they "hate you".

Not at all . . . that is an exageration.

A softball umpire should stay where his comfort zone is -- on the softball board.

Umpiring skills used to work girls softball are far different than those of baseball.

We are strongly influence by what Jim Evans calls "tradition and usage" (exactly like the legal system of the USA) and therefore there is a difference betwix what actually happens and what is called. I wouldn't expect a "robot" NCAA girls softball umpire to recognize that difference.

All I am saying is let "real umpires" answer questions . . . next you'll tell us that "Uncle George" has correctly identified this situation.

Again, I suggest that you post about things of which you know.

Regards,

Gimme a few minutes and I'll come up with "baseball vs water polo" officiating analogy so we can get completely off-topic.

Why in the HE77 are we comparing one totally different sport to another here?

Sure, they both have a strike zone, but the ball moves differently, and the expectations of the strike zone are different. Sorry, but that's reality.

Sure, we have basically the same mechanics, but I will get drilled in my evaluations if I make a 2-part strike call, look robotic on the stick or on the bases, or call a humongous deuce that busts off and ends up almost in the dirt a strike. Not gonna happen at the levels I work.

Let's stick to baseball here, y'all.

The last time I saw anyone consistently throw strikes that bounced at the catcher's feet was Gaylord Perry. And we know now he did that. Now that he's long retired I haven't seen a pitch fall THAT fast off the table in many years.

When can we discuss the singing and chanting of the players that is different between the two sports? You know, the "s-i, s-i-n, s-i-n-g-l-e, SINGLE--Rachel!"

Hahahaha
 

Potw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CTBLU, on the other hand, if the coach of the pitcher see's it go through the strike zone and the ball short-hops the catcher, he's gonna give you @*ll as well! For me, coach comes out and complains, I just say, ball through the zone first, it's a strike. Once I've set the ground rules, I have no more problems as long as I continue to call it that way! I'm not affraid of running a coach. I give him his say, I give him mine and we play on. The coach knows what'll happen if he continues to %)$ch about balls and strikes! He's gone. It's as simple as that.

To paraphrase that comedian: I don't care who you are...that there is funny!

By the way: Even with Ques-Tec: MLB does NOT expect their umpires to call a "strike" on a pitch that nicks the bottom of the zone and then lands in the dirt, or is smothered by the catcher in the dirt. MLB evaluators will override the machine, and consider an umpire who called "ball" to have adjudged correctly.

lawump
________
PBUC (former); NCAA; NFHS; Am. Leg.; AAU; KGB; FBI; ASPCA; ACLU; NRA.

Hey Lawump - how does the ACLU let you be a member of the NRA, and vice versa??

Just being a wise ***. I thought someone would have noticed the KGB/FBI cites first.

I started to reply in like manner but I realized that stooping to your level wouldn't do any good. It's people like you, with your condecending attitude, that accentuate the hostilities between the two sports. I do pity you.

Maybe in softball or 8U youth leagues, but in baseball what you would hear is the coach telling the catcher: "Move up, you gotta catch those to get the stirke."