The Official Forum - Teaching the strike zone

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dontcallmeblue

2) Good timing means DECIDING late(r), not just pausing more.

"Good timing is proper use of the eyes."

(Beat you to it, Tee :D )

I agree, I was just trying to simplify it.

Getting a good strike zone is a result of:

1. Timing
2. Good Positioning
3. Learning how to "work with your catcher". Eg. A borderline low pitch with the glove down is a ball, same pitch with the glove up is a strike, if the ball pops out of his mitt it's a ball. This applies only to higher level games. High School Varsity on up.
4. Getting feedback from your partner. He can be especially helpful on high and low pitches.
5. Doing lots and lots of games.

I know if I miss an obvious ball or strike it's usually because of poor timing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C

I am not sure you can teach an art.

Balls and strikes is a fine line between science and art and I lean towards art in the equation.

When Doug Harvey was asked: "What's your strike zone?"

His answer was: "If I like it, it is a strike!"

Some posters here take umbrage at that type answer.

In teaching a strike zone you can only give guidelines. We know there is a book strike zone -- some here will tell you that is what you call (even a curve ball that passes through the strike zone and bounces before a catcher can catch it) PERIOD!

Others know that a strike zone resembles an egg. There are holes in a zone that an experienced umpire working upper level baseball don't call.

We all know that umpires FAIL because of poor base work . . . we also know you make your name and career through your plate work.

Nick when I started umpiring if an umpire missed 10 pitches in a game he was considered REALLY good. Now if a miss ONE PITCH at a crucile time I am considered a Smitty!

Another good way to continue to learn the strike zone is to play a game we play in my area called "Up and Down". This is a game played with your base umpire(s). At then end of the game they tell you how many pitches they thought you called Strikes that appeared to be balls (UPS) and how many pitches you called balls that appear to them to be strikes (DOWNS). This system really works to make you think through what really hapopened during your game.

And as I always intone: Nothing does more for learning than to keep a journal of EVERY GAME you umpire and making a critical part of that journal a fair evaluation of your balls and strikes for a plate game of that day.

Tim,

A great post about the "art" of calling balls and strikes.

One of the best things I've learned through the years is to constantly monitor myself also as you suggested.

By allowing that critique, it often keeps me from falling back into a bad habit.

One thing I've learned from my journals is that most of the time I had a bad game, I bounced back the next by concentrating on my mechanics.

They are great guidelines.

Thanks
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontcallmeblue

Sorry, if it bounces, I don't care if is Barry Zito. Ball. 100%.

Good luck with your 10U games then... Call me when your game ends... better call me at home - I will have eaten and showered by then.

My 10U games? I don't do 10U games, sorry bucko.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Good luck with your 10U games then... Call me when your game ends... better call me at home - I will have eaten and showered by then.

If you routinely call pitches that bounce into the catchers glove strikes around here, the highest you'd advance is Middle School (maybe JV on a busy day) games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctblu40

If you routinely call pitches that bounce into the catchers glove strikes around here, the highest you'd advance is Middle School (maybe JV on a busy day) games.

Unless the catcher is ten feet behind the plate, you wouldn't even be calling 10U games around here, unless, of course, you were a volunteer umpire working Little League.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctblu40

If you routinely call pitches that bounce into the catchers glove strikes around here, the highest you'd advance is Middle School (maybe JV on a busy day) games.

Some people are missing the point. 99% of the time a pitched ball that bounces is a ball, but on those "rare," and I mean "rare," occasions where a pitcher floats a 12/6 curve (you could call it a gravity pitch), that goes 10 to 12 feet above the ground, then drops, hits the ground 12 to 18 inches behind the plate and immediately short hops into the catchers glove because he didn't reach out to glove it, is a strike IMO. It's thrown overhand, but looks identical to an underhanded softball pitch. The ball is belt high over the middle of the plate and if they don't swing, call it for what it is a strike.

Granted, there are very few who can actually throw this "junk" with any consistency, however, I have come accross a couple of gentlemen in the mens senior league that I do, that can. Everyone knows it passed right infront of the batter, all they have to do is stick the bat out and hit it.

"Some people are missing the point."

I would contend that NONE of us are missing anything schik:

I would never intentionally call a pitch a strike that bounced before it was caught by F2.

If you did around here (pdxblue may want to chime in here) you'd be working non-varsity games the rest of your career.

A pitch that bounces before being caught is not a strike -- ever, at any level of shaving aged players.

Sorry, that's the facts .

Regards,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C

I would never intentionally call a pitch a strike that bounced before it was caught by F2.

If you did around here (pdxblue may want to chime in here) you'd be working non-varsity games the rest of your career.

A pitch that bounces before being caught is not a strike -- ever, at any level of shaving aged players.

Sorry, that's the facts .

Regards,

I called a curve (that went throught the strike zone) that hit just behind the plate in a Varsity game once. While I wasn't relegated to sub-varsity for it, had I continued the practice, I would have no doubt been demoted soon. The coach was all over my butt for calling it, and I never forgot the lesson.

Any pitch caught with F2's mitt on the ground is a ball.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickG

I've read with interest the recent threads bashing the LLWS umpires -- particularly their strike zone. And I don't disagree with the general view that they're calling big and, worse, inconsistent zones. The bottom of the zone is a disaster, and the low outside corner is a mess. The top of the zone can be anywhere from belt to armpits. And this from the same ump, same batter, from pitch to pitch.

Rather than add to the bashing, though, I'd like to raise an issue that I bring up with my league and district peers and get consistently jeered. We all (I suspect) work with umpires who can't call a decent zone. The worst problems are at the bottom of the zone (IMHO). I've worked the rails in games where I stand there and watch "strikes" called on balls coming in mid-shin, and sometimes lower. I'm not talking about big breaking balls, either. These are fastballs kissing the dirt under the catcher's glove. I'm sure you see this yourself. The manager is in the coache's box at third just tearing his hair. These balls are unhittable (Ichiro can golf these low ones, but not 12-year-olds), and, frankly, I don't blame the coaches for complaining.

So here's the problem: Every time I bring up the issue of "teaching" the zone, I hear nothing but complaints. We spend hours at clinics going over mechanics and rotations, but when it comes to this most central part of the game (and a part defined by rule, no less), we hear things like "ah, your zone is your zone", and "just stay consistent and you'll be fine", and the all-time lame-brainer: "strikes are good".

Why don't we teach calling balls and strikes with the same rigor that we teach rotations? Or maybe you do? That's why the long post, because I'd like to hear from those of you who do provide (or have taken) clinics in calling the ball. How do you do it? How do you approach an otherwise dedicated and hard-working umpire and tell him his zone needs work -- and THEN provide a means for him to work on it?

I'll be interested in your views on this. I would very much like to begin a course of clinics in my leage and district, but it would be great to learn from experience first. Or do most of you go with the conventional wisdom that a zone is a zone so shut up and swing. I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts.

You received good advice thus far and I will add this.

Before one can become better at something they must first understand what they are doing wrong.

How is this accomplished?

If at all possible see if someone can tape you behind the dish to get a good look at your mechanics. Once you see what you are doing wrong then you can work on correcting it.

Also, what's missing even in PRO ball is a good solid mentoring program. I was fotunate enough to have good mentors in my career. Also, as an umpire you must set aside your "ego" and be willing to take constructive criticism to help you.

The best advice I received about the strike zone came from Jon Bible who recommended that you treat the strike zone as a "window" and if the ball hits the window it's a strike.

That philosophy has helped me become more consistent because it takes the "guess" work out of calling the so called "border-line" pitches.

As for LL, the strike zone varies because during the regular season where there is not the talent level we are seeing on TV one tends to have a bigger zone. Also, I believe the LL definition of the strike zone is bigger to begin with.

Pete Booth

Quote:

Originally Posted by shickenbottom

b)By using this reference point, if the catcher catches the ball at or above his knees, it's probably a strike assuming it between the inside and outside of your zone, otherwise if it's below - ball it. The obvious exception is the looping 12/6 curve or the sinking changeup that is gloved below his knees, but doesn't bounce into the glove.

Are you saying a ball at the bottom of the strike zone when it crosses the front of the plate and drops below the catcher's knees when he catches it is a ball??? I personally don't care where he catches it - where was the pitch when it enters the strike zone? That's my key. (IMHO)

That is EXACTLY what we are saying:

Through "usage and tradition" a pitch, even though it passes "through" the strike zone, that bounces before caught by F2 is a BALL . . . now tell me that is wrong, come on tell me!

You claim "NCAA" in your signature . . . don't disappoint me!

Regards,