Coach slaps Player...

[GarthB]

Obviously off topic here....

The "ignore feature" at this site is a wonderful thing. For those who haven't tried it: When you place a poster on your ignore list, his posts no longer show up on your screen. However, there is still an indication when he posts, in what thread and in what sequence in that thread. Because of this, you are reminded how often you have saved yourself from reading the idiotic thoughts that led you to placing that poster on your ignore list in the first place, without having to read the idiotic thoughts.

Pure heaven.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Tim C

SDS let me get this straight:



Personally my views of children were best described by W.C. Fields.

Parboiled?

[UmpJM]

Gentlemen,

While I did not the situation in question live or on a video replay, from what I have read of the situation I have formed the following opinions:

1. I believe the umpires acted appropriately in taking no action regarding the incident.

2. I would be happy to have the player on a team I was coaching.

3. I would not care to have the coach on the coaching staff of a team I was coaching.

While I would agree that the player's choice of language was inappropriate, I like the caring evident in his comment. It struck me as evidence that the player truly cared about winning and suggested to me that he felt his team should be capable of producing the one run they needed. In my experience, players with passion for the game tend to be the best players, and that passion is something that cannot be taught. On the other hand, a player can be taught to control his mouth.

One of the things I like about sports is that they provide the opportunity to perform under pressure; often the stress of a situation in a game can cause those participating to perform below their capabilities. But, with practice and preparation and repetition, most people who work at it can learn to perform at their very best under very stressful situations. As a youth coach, I feel that is one of the most important things that my players can learn from participating in sports.

I am a firm believer in the premise that my players learn much more from what I do than from what I say. What this coach taught his players was that it's OK to "lose it" in a stressful situation. My impression was that he was so upset with how the broadcast remark would reflect on HIM, that he unthinkingly lashed out at the player. And wasted the opportunity to teach all his players a good lesson about "grace under pressure".

Now, I can certainly understand the momentary urge to inflict violence upon one's players - with me, it's usually the urge to strangle one of them rather than slap them. But, I've always managed to refrain from acting on the urge, and, with time, it usually passes. If I ever found myself unable to resist the urge to strike a player, I would simply stop coaching. Because I would not be fit to coach.

I also regularly drop "F bombs" while I'm coaching - but I'm the only one who hears them, because they're usually not said out loud, or, occasionally muttered under my breath while I'm in the 3B coaching box.

As in, "Swing the F*&$#ng bat, Billy - he's been calling that a strike all day!"

Which, in the "for public consumption" version comes out along the lines of, "If you see that pitch again, just dump it into Right Field, Billy.", said with the most encouraging tone I'm able to muster.

I think it's a little unrealistic to think kids that age (most of them are 13) don't use that language and, given the context, I thought the coach WAY overreacted. Not that the kid didn't deserve a reprimand, mind you. Not sure what his "MPR status" was, but I'm thinking pulling him out of the game to think about what is and isn't appropriate language would have been more in order.

So, I'd take the kid, lose the coach, & be impressed with the umpires for not getting involved where they weren't really needed.

JMO.

JM

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

I am a firm believer in the premise that my players learn much more from what I do than from what I say. What this coach taught his players was that it's OK to "lose it" in a stressful situation.

Exactly, and he taught them an acceptable manner in which to "lose it".

So, I'd take the kid, lose the coach, & be impressed with the umpires for not getting involved where they weren't really needed.


JM

In your opinion, coach, were they not needed because they didn't see it? Were they not needed because this event wasn't visible to the public?

What if this happened on a field without a dugout...standing at the bench near the parents and other fans. Do you thinkthe umpires should ignore incidents like this, at this age level, in full view of the public?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, personally, when my kids were bad, I used to put their hands in the toaster. That'll teach the little sh!ts in a hurry.

Worked for me.

Do I really need to attach a smiley?

No smiley needed.

We all know how much kiddy hands will gum up a good toaster.

btw...I've heard things on the court from coaches to kids that they would never have the balls to say to a real human adult. Doesn't take a lot of guts to slap a kid in the face, or even humilate them loudly in public. If your first reaction is to smack a 12 yo when he cracks under huge public pressure then you're a schmuck. Period.

[UmpJM]

Garth,

What I intended to suggest was that what the coach did was "unacceptable" and taught his players the wrong thing.

As I said, I did not see the actual incident. From the descriptions I have read, it did not strike me as severe enough, public enough, or prolonged enough to warrant the umpires' intervention.

JM

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Garth,

What I intended to suggest was that what the coach did was "unacceptable" and taught his players the wrong thing.

As I said, I did not see the actual incident. From the descriptions I have read, it did not strike me as severe enough, public enough, or prolonged enough to warrant the umpires' intervention.

JM

Could you stop wiggling and answer the question I posed?

What if this happened on a field without a dugout...standing at the bench near the parents and other fans. Do you thinkthe umpires should ignore incidents like this, at this age level, in full view of the public?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

No smiley needed.



btw...I've heard things on the court from coaches to kids that they would never have the balls to say to a real human adult. Doesn't take a lot of guts to slap a kid in the face, or even humilate them loudly in public. If your first reaction is to smack a 12 yo when he cracks under huge public pressure then you're a schmuck. Period.

Sometimes they are dumb enough to say it loud enough to get my attention.

I had a junior high basketball game in which, in a fast break, a player threw the ball over his teammates head and out of bounds. From across the court, his coach stood up and yelled, "What is the matter with you? Are you friggin' retarded?"

To the applause of the parents of his players, I tee'd him immediately.

[PWL]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The slap in question was no harder than that of slapping a mosquito. It did not bruise or otherwise damage the kid. My dad would have whooped my behind good for this. My dad would have authorized any adult supervisor to do the same thing. The problem lies with parents coddling and spoiling their children, a trend that has been occurring ever since....well, I don't want to start that argument again. Let's just say recent generations have been way too lenient in raising children, preferring to give them "time outs" rather than real discipline.

The little brat in this case needed to have his mouth washed out with soap. It's one thing for kids hanging out together in private to say cuss words. That is normal behavior for teens and pre-teens. Proper parenting would prevent the use of this same language in a public setting.

You state that your father would have whooped your behind good and proper parenting would prevent the use of this language in a public setting. So when you use inappropriate language on this forum, your saying the moderators should wash your mouth out with soap and spank your bottom.

I GUESS THIS IS YOUR OXY MORON FOR THE DAY.

Please be gentle with your reply............

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by GarthB

And I believe that others are trying way too hard to excuse the basic act: a grown man slapping a 12 year old kid in the face.

There was no excuse for that violent behavior. The kid didn't "make him do it". He is the grown up, supposedly in charge of his actions and he decided upon an act of violence. This is reprehensible behavior and has no place at 12 year old level baseball game.

Do I have a bias? Of course. I am biased against violence towards children and I am biased against adults who cannot control themselves.

Decaf is probably in order here...you've taken the basic premise of this thread and manipulated it to serve your view. The thread asked if we would eject the coach for slapping a kid in the dugout. That is cut and dry. No, most seasoned umpires understand where their limits extend to. In the actual case - a LL game with veteran officials, TV crews and a host of LL admins - no action was taken against the individual.

While the adult's behavior was reprehensible, had an umpire ejected the coach for this action, this board would be alive with laughter. Ejecting this coach would be a mistake - serving as a witness in a criminal complaint would not. I would safely guess that most of us have had a parent slap/spank/hit us. It never was a good experience, but most of us would have been wards of the state by today's standards.

A coach in the Chicago area actually punched one of his players a few years ago. He was not ejected, but relieved of his position after over twenty years at the helm. Both authority figures acted appropriately.

We can disagree all you want about what we would do away from the field, but that is a horrible comparison. I wouldn't tolerate some guy calling me a M-F in a grocery store but I listen to fans do it all of the time when I'm umpiring. If an official is touched by a coach or player it leads to an ejection. Off the field it could lead to an arrest for assault or battery. Let's stick to the topic and on-field responsibilities.

Another member asked if the coach had slapped the kid on the mound would it be any different? If the kid had swore that loud, the coach probably wouldn't have had to come out to accost him. The kid would have been on his way. For what it's worth, I have seen plenty of parent-coaches who grab, pull and mistreat their players over the years - typically it's Daddy manhandling Junior. Just another reason why many of us hate small ball.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

Another member asked if the coach had slapped the kid on the mound would it be any different?

Yes, the kid would then field a comebacker to him and instead of throwing the batter out at 1B, he would hold onto the ball until the batter runner rounded all the bases and scored the winning run, losing the league championship for the Yankees and winning it for the improbable Bad News Bears.

All life's riddles are answered in the movies.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

Yes, the kid would then field a comebacker to him and instead of throwing the batter out at 1B, he would hold onto the ball until the batter runner rounded all the bases and scored the winning run, losing the league championship for the Yankees and winning it for the improbable Bad News Bears.

All life's riddles are answered in the movies.

The Bears lost when Kelly Leak got thrown out at the plate in the sixth inning. And all the 12 year olds got beer.

[upscout2000]

What would all say if the kid he slapped was his.

[PWL]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

The Bears lost when Kelly Leak got thrown out at the plate in the sixth inning. And all the 12 year olds got beer.

Now Kelly Leak is a mid forty washed out nothing. Looks like the movie had some truth to it after all.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

You know that this question never was discussed at a round table of professional umpires...until the Blue Jays game of course.

As I wrote earlier, a coach who exhibits bad behavior towards his team can certainly be dealt with but most of us have never witnessed an atrocity worthy of ejection. If you see an assault and want to do the right thing, become a witness for the prosecution.

I once had a Dad/Coach walk out to right field and drag his kid back to the dugout. The kid refused to play right and thought he'd show his protest by trotting out there without his glove. His Dad/Coach realized this after a couple of the guys on the bench started laughing about it. He asked for 'Time' and walked out there...the kid turned white and the Dad/Coach grabbed him from behind the neck and dragged him off the field. It was not gentle and the kid was crying by the time he got to the dugout. The Dad/Coach came over to me and announced his replacement player and told me he would be leaving the park - his assistant would be taking over. The Dad/Coach grabbed his bag and the kid's arm and they walked to the car. I wouldn't have wanted to have been in that house when they got home. Two weeks later, I see the team and his kid is in right field - this time with a glove and a different attitude. Dad/Coach seemed to have mellowed too.

A parent asked me why I allowed that to happen to a sixteen year old kid. Since I was in the midst of stowing my gear after the game, I gave her a curt reply, "That Dad could handle it better than I could and his wife will handle him better that I ever will." Sometimes you have to know when to let go of a tiger's tail.

I like Garth's suggestion...if we all add him to the 'Ignore' list, life may just make more sense. I can't stand people who claim to be umpires but can't argue or defend their positions. Communication is fundamental to our discipline and sticking your fingers in your ears makes you look like a two year old. Learn, do, teach...that's what we are supposed to be doing here.