Coach slaps Player...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I am not suire which hurt more:

The actual switch when it hit my butt or the 30 mins I had to spend outside "selecting" the switch that was to be used.

I didn't have too much of a behavior problem, as I learned the difference between right and wrong from strong, loving, agnostic parents, who cared enough about me to give me discipline when necessary.

I am confused here....should I have left out the word Christian in my post?

I didn't mean to infer that only Christians love their children, or know how to use corporal discipline properly. I was merely narrowing down a discription of my parents. I'm sure Muslim, Jewish (as the Bible referrence is originally from the Torah), Agnostic, Atheist, or people of any other faith can and do use the switch, the rod, the belt, the paddle, or whatever for discipline. It's just not nearly as common these days, no matter what faith the parents happen to be.

[BlueLawyer]

In 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 posts . . .

Strikes and outs!

[BlueLawyer]

The question/sitch/hypothetical posed in the original post was something like this:

12 yo kid in dugout drops F-bomb not at anybody in particular. Coach of 12 yo kid slaps kid in face for dropping F-bomb.

Umpire, what, if anything, do you do about it?

Various answers submitted from "Nothing that happens in the dugout is my business", with which I disagree, to "Mobilize the National Guard" with which I also disagree.

My .02

Strikes and outs!

[Jurassic Referee]

Well, personally, when my kids were bad, I used to put their hands in the toaster. That'll teach the little sh!ts in a hurry.

Worked for me.

Do I really need to attach a smiley?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, personally, when my kids were bad, I used to put their hands in the toaster. That'll teach the little sh!ts in a hurry.

Worked for me.

Do I really need to attach a smiley?

No smiley needed.

We all know how much kiddy hands will gum up a good toaster.

btw...I've heard things on the court from coaches to kids that they would never have the balls to say to a real human adult. Doesn't take a lot of guts to slap a kid in the face, or even humilate them loudly in public. If your first reaction is to smack a 12 yo when he cracks under huge public pressure then you're a schmuck. Period.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

No smiley needed.



btw...I've heard things on the court from coaches to kids that they would never have the balls to say to a real human adult. Doesn't take a lot of guts to slap a kid in the face, or even humilate them loudly in public. If your first reaction is to smack a 12 yo when he cracks under huge public pressure then you're a schmuck. Period.

Sometimes they are dumb enough to say it loud enough to get my attention.

I had a junior high basketball game in which, in a fast break, a player threw the ball over his teammates head and out of bounds. From across the court, his coach stood up and yelled, "What is the matter with you? Are you friggin' retarded?"

To the applause of the parents of his players, I tee'd him immediately.

[SanDiegoSteve]

There is no reason for thread closure. Nobody is arguing over religion here. At least I'm not going to. I have already stopped short of going in that direction in two posts, when I refused to "go there." We are still discussing the coach slapping the player. We have not gone off-topic in any way, so this thread should remain wide open.

We have a difference of opinion as to what constitutes abuse or violence. I say the little slap was a lapse in judgment, not a violent act. Now, if he decked the kid with a right cross, by all means, that is violent, and child abuse as well. What it was was the coach saying, "shut your mouth, boy, you're on National TV." I'm sure as soon as he slapped the kid, he realized it wasn't a good thing. I don't think he "didn't control his anger" as Garth says. He didn't have time to get "angry." It was a knee-jerk reaction of disbelief for what his player just said into a microphone on ESPN. It does not excuse what he did, but it does explain what he did, and he did not do it out of anger.

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It does not excuse what he did, but it does explain what he did, and he did not do it out of anger.

He didn't? Do you think he deliberated, considered all the consequences and then said to himself, "the very best thing I can do right now is to slap a 12 year old boy in the face with 10,000 cameras around"?

Strikes and outs!

[Tim C]

SDS let me get this straight:

It is just fine for you to identify (that is a non-emotional term meant simply to identify a thought) your parents as being "Christian" (alluding to, if not more, that being a redeaming quailty) but if I used the EXACT same type illustrative adjective I am somehow criticizing your post.

I simple felt that it should be noted that Christians and non-Christians alike can have the same values of bringing up children.

Personally my views of children were best described by W.C. Fields.

Steve, while our differences in umpiring (and life in general) are very obvious I see no reason to engage you in all statements you make.

Regards,

[GarthB]

Obviously off topic here....

The "ignore feature" at this site is a wonderful thing. For those who haven't tried it: When you place a poster on your ignore list, his posts no longer show up on your screen. However, there is still an indication when he posts, in what thread and in what sequence in that thread. Because of this, you are reminded how often you have saved yourself from reading the idiotic thoughts that led you to placing that poster on your ignore list in the first place, without having to read the idiotic thoughts.

Pure heaven.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Tim C

SDS let me get this straight:



Personally my views of children were best described by W.C. Fields.

Parboiled?

[UmpJM]

Gentlemen,

While I did not the situation in question live or on a video replay, from what I have read of the situation I have formed the following opinions:

1. I believe the umpires acted appropriately in taking no action regarding the incident.

2. I would be happy to have the player on a team I was coaching.

3. I would not care to have the coach on the coaching staff of a team I was coaching.

While I would agree that the player's choice of language was inappropriate, I like the caring evident in his comment. It struck me as evidence that the player truly cared about winning and suggested to me that he felt his team should be capable of producing the one run they needed. In my experience, players with passion for the game tend to be the best players, and that passion is something that cannot be taught. On the other hand, a player can be taught to control his mouth.

One of the things I like about sports is that they provide the opportunity to perform under pressure; often the stress of a situation in a game can cause those participating to perform below their capabilities. But, with practice and preparation and repetition, most people who work at it can learn to perform at their very best under very stressful situations. As a youth coach, I feel that is one of the most important things that my players can learn from participating in sports.

I am a firm believer in the premise that my players learn much more from what I do than from what I say. What this coach taught his players was that it's OK to "lose it" in a stressful situation. My impression was that he was so upset with how the broadcast remark would reflect on HIM, that he unthinkingly lashed out at the player. And wasted the opportunity to teach all his players a good lesson about "grace under pressure".

Now, I can certainly understand the momentary urge to inflict violence upon one's players - with me, it's usually the urge to strangle one of them rather than slap them. But, I've always managed to refrain from acting on the urge, and, with time, it usually passes. If I ever found myself unable to resist the urge to strike a player, I would simply stop coaching. Because I would not be fit to coach.

I also regularly drop "F bombs" while I'm coaching - but I'm the only one who hears them, because they're usually not said out loud, or, occasionally muttered under my breath while I'm in the 3B coaching box.

As in, "Swing the F*&$#ng bat, Billy - he's been calling that a strike all day!"

Which, in the "for public consumption" version comes out along the lines of, "If you see that pitch again, just dump it into Right Field, Billy.", said with the most encouraging tone I'm able to muster.

I think it's a little unrealistic to think kids that age (most of them are 13) don't use that language and, given the context, I thought the coach WAY overreacted. Not that the kid didn't deserve a reprimand, mind you. Not sure what his "MPR status" was, but I'm thinking pulling him out of the game to think about what is and isn't appropriate language would have been more in order.

So, I'd take the kid, lose the coach, & be impressed with the umpires for not getting involved where they weren't really needed.

JMO.

JM

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by upscout2000

What would all say if the kid he slapped was his.

If the kid was mine, I'd applaud the coach for disciplining my child... then I would re-enforce the discipline by:
1) Sitting him for a game (I'm sure LL would agree to this punishment)
2) Making sure he apologized in person to the coach and his teammates for his remark/ behavior.

And to answer Garths question (again), "Is it appropriate for a grown man to slap a child of 12 across the face?"

Yes, in this instance it is. You see Garth, I think you're trying to make this a black/white issue. It's just not that simple. If the kid ignored a sign given by the coach, a slap is not in order. But sometimes physical contact is used (and rightly so) to put a kid in his/her place.

BTW- The coach is retired from the NYPD, so I'll bet he's seen his share of violence as well.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

And to answer Garths question (again), "Is it appropriate for a grown man to slap a child of 12 across the face?"

Yes, in this instance it is. You see Garth, I think you're trying to make this a black/white issue. It's just not that simple.

Yes, it is that simple. I've spent years working on issues such as this. I've seen the studies, the kids, the adults.

Corporal punishment is called for at times. No disagreement. But it is never appropriate for a grown man to slap a child across the face. Period. The lesson intended is never the lesson learned.

There are places better designed for corporal punishment and offenses that call for it.

And yes, I know the coach is a former police officer. He should be ashamed. If he were on duty and witnessed that, he would be obligated to intervene.