Little league question

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LDUB

After time has been called it is not impossible for a hidden ball play to be done before any pitches are thrown. It is very possible that the ball was made live correctly before the play.

Please elaborate, I would love to learn something new. How do you make the ball live again legally if the first baseman is hiding it in his glove?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Please elaborate, I would love to learn something new. How do you make the ball live again legally if the first baseman is hiding it in his glove?

Who said the pitcher never had the ball?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Please elaborate, I would love to learn something new. How do you make the ball live again legally if the first baseman is hiding it in his glove?

Umpire says PLAY. Pickoff to first. Ball never returned to the pitcher as pitcher pretends to tie shoe. Runner leads. Out.

Where's the pitch?

Not IM POSSIBLE.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Absolutely. Of course. But since sj was unclear of the details, several of us rushed to judgment in thinking F3 had the ball when play resumed. I guess I'll have to read an article on the game to find out what happened.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Umpire says PLAY. Pickoff to first. Ball never returned to the pitcher as pitcher pretends to tie shoe. Runner leads. Out.

Where's the pitch?

Not IM POSSIBLE.

This is not a hidden ball trick after a 25 minute dead ball delay. This is a hidden ball trick after a ball made live and a throwover, which if this happened was not well explained.

No need for pitch if this is what happened.

It IS impossible to have a hidden ball trick immediately after a dead ball. A hidden ball trick after a legal throwover is not immediately after a dead ball.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by DG

It IS impossible to have a hidden ball trick immediately after a dead ball. A hidden ball trick after a legal throwover is not immediately after a dead ball.

Well up until now everyone was talking about a hidden ball play before a pitch was thrown, not immediately after a dead ball.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

This is not a hidden ball trick after a 25 minute dead ball delay. This is a hidden ball trick after a ball made live and a throwover, which if this happened was not well explained.

No need for pitch if this is what happened.

It IS impossible to have a hidden ball trick immediately after a dead ball. A hidden ball trick after a legal throwover is not immediately after a dead ball.

If you read the original post, it clearly says "before a pitch is thrown."

Reading is fundamental.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

If you read the original post, it clearly says "before a pitch is thrown."

Reading is fundamental.

SJ, in original post said play was stopped to discuss the subject. I assume time was called. Shortly after that SJ said after a 25 minute delay a ruling was made. I assume time was still in effect. So before a pitch was thrown the ball was dead.

Reading is fundamental. Try to read more than one post to get more information.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

SJ, in original post said play was stopped to discuss the subject. I assume time was called. Shortly after that SJ said after a 25 minute delay a ruling was made. I assume time was still in effect. So before a pitch was thrown the ball was dead.

Reading is fundamental. Try to read more than one post to get more information.

Play was stopped to discuss a substitution issue.

Then, "When they resumed Venuzuela had a runner on first. Tulsa pulled a hidden ball trick and tagged the runner out at first before any pitches were thrown."

Nothing said about the ball being dead for the hidden ball, is there?

And you'll notice, sj has followed up with another post. I was right.

[EMBUAump]

Here was the problem and why the rule books were out. The Venezuelan manager had a Spanish rule book. The rule book (English) came out so that the tournament director could read the rule. Unhappy that the tournament directors ruling (the pitcher can return to the mound after being pinch hit for) he requested a phone call be placed to Williamsport and it was. Williamsport said the same thing as the tournament director only in Spanish.

It seems that in the regional tournament Venezuela lost a game 2-0 after they pinch hit for the pitcher and was told he could not return to the mound.

If I was in the same situation I’d most likely do the same.

There was a throw over prior to the hidden ball trick. The first basemen walked over to the pitcher as if to say a word or two to the pitcher the first basemen simply placed his glove inside the pitchers and walked back to first base. The pitcher never stepped on the dirt of the mound. The runner was tagged by the first basemen that still had the ball.

The umpires and tournament director did everything correctly in both situations.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Play was stopped to discuss a substitution issue.

Then, "When they resumed Venuzuela had a runner on first. Tulsa pulled a hidden ball trick and tagged the runner out at first before any pitches were thrown."

Nothing said about the ball being dead for the hidden ball, is there?

And you'll notice, sj has followed up with another post. I was right.

Play was stopped for 25 minutes. Are you telling me the ball was not dead during this time? In a game you work would you allow a hidden ball trick after a 25 minute delay of any kind?

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Umpire says PLAY. Pickoff to first. Ball never returned to the pitcher as pitcher pretends to tie shoe. Runner leads. Out.

Where's the pitch?

Not IM POSSIBLE.

The way the original post was worded, the ball was put in play (illegally) with F3 holding the ball. No one said there had to be a pitch. If all elements are present, and the PU says, "Play ball", the ball becomes live. If F1 is on the mound when he ties his shoe, "BALK".

Bob

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

The way the original post was worded, the ball was put in play (illegally) with F3 holding the ball.

Here is the original post: "When they resumed Venuzuela had a runner on first. Tulsa pulled a hidden ball trick and tagged the runner out at first before any pitches were thrown."

So by reading that you decided that the pitcher did not have the ball when the umpire said play...that is a pretty big assumption.

Originally Posted by bluezebra

No one said there had to be a pitch.

SJ said "Tulsa pulled a hidden ball trick and tagged the runner out at first before any pitches were thrown." You replied " In two words, IM POSSIBLE"

So if you say that it is "IM POSSIBLE" before any pitches were thrown, then that is the same as saying that has to be a pitch.

Originally Posted by bluezebra

If all elements are present, and the PU says, "Play ball", the ball becomes live. If F1 is on the mound when he ties his shoe, "BALK".

This wasn't an NCAA game. Get the rules straight.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Yes, unless he's tying his shoes on or astride the rubber, he's okay in OBR and JR/SR league.