Summer League Question

[brandan89]

Do any of you call a "T" for dunking in a pregame warm up for Summer League? I was going to call it but the president said dont worry about it. Just wondering if they do this where yall are at.

[ChuckElias]

Generally not called around here, Brandon.

[JRutledge]

No. Not unless the league people want that. All we tell them is to stay off the rims. These are not regular pregame sessions. Leave that alone.

Peace

[Stat-Man]

In the one end of summer tournament I work at, the officials generally don't strictly enforce it. If they see it, they'll tell the players to stay off the rims and if they still keep it, they warn them that the next time may be a T.

In 8 years of working at this tournament, I can only recall a single T for pregame dunking. Our main concern is making sure each team has 5 players ready to play and that they pay the refs before the tip off

[RookieDude]

The Rec league I played for and officiated for had a strict policy of no dunking...either before or during the game. In fact the League Administrator wanted anyone dunking or hanging on the rim ejected.
The Rec league used middle school gyms around the city. These gyms usually did not have "break away" rims. Therefore, any damge to the rims had to be paid for by the league...also it wasn't good PR to have a bent rim the day after a Rec game and the school having to play a game.

Edited: The Rec League had this rule of "rim hanging" ejection spelled out in the set of rules each team received at the start of the season.

[Edited by RookieDude on Jul 19th, 2004 at 11:14 AM]

[rainmaker]

Around here, some leagues want us to not worry about it, some want us to warn first and then whack.

A couple summers ago, I went to the coach and warned him. He had been talking to someone and wasn't paying attention. He said, "What!?! I've told them and told them! We don't get any more warnings! Whack 'em all!" So we started the game with EIGHT -- count 'em, EIGHT! -- free throws and the ball for Team B. This coach was the assistant coach during the season. That fall the head coach resigned, and I was not at all surprised that this assistant didn't get the move-up-nod. Can't imagine why!

[footlocker]

So Juulie,

You just stood there and counted all the dunks? Then assessed the technicals? Ok, that certainly is by the book.

Why wouldn't you let the player/s know, "Hey, stay off the rim." It's your game. If they continue. Whack the first one and let them know, "That dunk just cost your team a Tech, no more!"

Just because the coach is cool with it and because "other games" have been a problem doesn't mean you have to enforce to an extreme. Was starting the game with 4 Techs good for the game? I would have a hard time believing that it would be.

Anyway, it was your game and your call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Around here, some leagues want us to not worry about it, some want us to warn first and then whack.

A couple summers ago, I went to the coach and warned him. He had been talking to someone and wasn't paying attention. He said, "What!?! I've told them and told them! We don't get any more warnings! Whack 'em all!" So we started the game with EIGHT -- count 'em, EIGHT! -- free throws and the ball for Team B. This coach was the assistant coach during the season. That fall the head coach resigned, and I was not at all surprised that this assistant didn't get the move-up-nod. Can't imagine why!

Did you unload the coach too? That would have been 4 indirect T's that he shoulda be charged with. Buh-bye!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by footlocker
So Juulie,

You just stood there and counted all the dunks? Then assessed the technicals? Ok, that certainly is by the book.

Why wouldn't you let the player/s know, "Hey, stay off the rim." It's your game. If they continue. Whack the first one and let them know, "That dunk just cost your team a Tech, no more!"

Just because the coach is cool with it and because "other games" have been a problem doesn't mean you have to enforce to an extreme. Was starting the game with 4 Techs good for the game? I would have a hard time believing that it would be.

Anyway, it was your game and your call.

If the summer league paying you wants it called, then you call it. It's got absolutely nothing to do with being "good for the game". And if they do it in regular season games, it's never a matter of enforcing it to the extreme either. It's just a matter that the T's HAVE TO or BETTER BE called.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by footlocker
So Juulie,

You just stood there and counted all the dunks? Then assessed the technicals? Ok, that certainly is by the book.

Why wouldn't you let the player/s know, "Hey, stay off the rim." It's your game. If they continue. Whack the first one and let them know, "That dunk just cost your team a Tech, no more!"

Just because the coach is cool with it and because "other games" have been a problem doesn't mean you have to enforce to an extreme. Was starting the game with 4 Techs good for the game? I would have a hard time believing that it would be.

Anyway, it was your game and your call.

Seems she did warn the coach. No?

[footlocker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

If the summer league paying you wants it called, then you call it. It's got absolutely nothing to do with being "good for the game". And if they do it in regular season games, it's never a matter of enforcing it to the extreme either. It's just a matter that the T's HAVE TO or BETTER BE called.

I agree with your assessment for regular season games. Making a call because of a dunk would not preclude me from letting the players know that the dunk just cost them a T. Also letting a coach know that he just got nailed and will lose his coaching box privileges. Not saying something would be causing/inviting trouble. This is how I would handle the regular season game.

As for summer league, yes the coach was warned. He invited the Ts. ItÂ’s JuulieÂ’s call and I applaud her for making it. As for me, I would still tell the players after I see the first dunk that causes the first technical.

If I am reffing a game, and the “League” wants this enforced. Sure, I’ll enforce it. But that doesn’t stop me from also communicating to the offending players that I just called it and I’m more than willing to call it again if need be.

These players get warned all summer by refs that continue to allow it and donÂ’t enforce it. They are only doing what has been allowed. IMO, if I am going to be fair and call one, IÂ’ll let them know that I did, and if they (after realizing that I will enforce the rules) want to do it again, then theyÂ’ll get another T. ItÂ’s that simple. ItÂ’s good game management.

And by the way, I believe that everything I do out there should be for the “good of the game.”


Dan- You're right. The warning to the coach is plenty fair. That is why I back her call. I'm suggesting that I would take it a step further and mention it to the players after I make the first call.

But as someone else stated. These tech would have ejected the coach. Not a good way to start a game, in any league, when communication would potentially avoid all of this.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by footlocker
[/B]

These players get warned all summer by refs that continue to allow it and donÂ’t enforce it. They are only doing what has been allowed. IMO, if I am going to be fair and call one, IÂ’ll let them know that I did, and if they (after realizing that I will enforce the rules) want to do it again, then theyÂ’ll get another T. ItÂ’s that simple. ItÂ’s good game management.

[/B][/QUOTE]That's fine- if every single referee, without exception, warns the players instead of Ting them up. If you have one official that calls it by the book, though, then you're into a situation that is not fair to either the ballplayers or to the other officials that have been warning them. If that particular summer league wants pre-game dunking called strictly, then all the officials should be uniformly calling it that way. It's got nothing to do with any particular officials "game management" skills. It's got everything to do with our consistency in making this particular call. That was the point that I was trying to make.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by footlocker
Dan- You're right. The warning to the coach is plenty fair. That is why I back her call. I'm suggesting that I would take it a step further and mention it to the players after I make the first call.

Apparently there WAS no first call, apparently the house rule is to warn. She warned, the coach threw a hissy fit. (And BTW, apparently this has been an ongoing problem, at least in the coach's eyes.)

So the question to be answered became "do I now calm the coach down or do I just take the path of least resistance & start flinging T's.

But as someone else stated. These tech would have ejected the coach. Not a good way to start a game, in any league, when communication would potentially avoid all of this.

Yep, the coach should have been ejected.

I have no problem with that.

[rainmaker]

The dunks were flying pretty fast and furious, and I'm not sure we penalized them all. They were in a lay-up line, and after the first guy threw it down, they just followed along as fast as I could get to the coach. I had no intention of T'ing them, but the coach wanted it so...

I didn't toss the coach. When we were told to T the dunks, we weren't told to toss the coach, and he was the site manager at that gym. Somehow, I just couldn't do it.

By the way, I later got an e-mail from the assignor which said he was glad I'd done it. The coach told him, and said he was glad someone finally had the, uh, onions to stick the kids. So I guess I got it about right.

[Nevadaref]

Rather than carry on about who you would warn, who you would T, and game-management skills, why not just follow the procedure in the book?

10.3.4 Sit C tells you exactly how to handle a pre-game dunk.