Foul Ball (not tips) Concussions

[Kaliix]

Interesting article here on the Giants catcher Mike Matheny. Seems he took too many foul balls (not foul tips damn it!) and now is suffering the continuing affects of a concussion.

What is more interesting is that he was wearing a HSM and the Giants organization thought that the HSM might be the reason.

Matheny uses the hockey-style mask preferred by some catchers for its better sight lines, and he was initially convinced it contributed to his concussion. But the Giants enlisted two testing centers to compare the impact resistance of the hockey mask to the traditional catcher's mask -- and, so far, they appear to offer similar protection.

Of course I saw the plate umpire in the Boston/NY series (i think) take a broken bat to the side of the head. No protection with his traditional mask. Sal Fasano took Ramirez's bat off his noggin today as well. Luckily he was wearing a helmet.

And don't take this as me trying to change anyone's mind to go to the HSM. Do what you want, I don't care... The post was more about the concussions and what I thought was a good article. But with the two incidences I saw in the past couple days, I wanted to note that the HSM protects you no better than a mask from foul balls but will help with the bats...

[JRutledge]

How can you come to that conclusion? If the Giants feel the HSM caused a concussion, not sure that is a good thing. I would rather have a mark on my face then a concussion.

Peace

[Kaliix]

Did you fail to read the "two testing centers determined that the masks offer similar protection" part of the story. HSM are similar to traditional masks in protection from foul balls, at least straight on. The obvious indisputable part is that they offer protection on the top and sides unlike traditional masks.

I feel bad for Matheny and I thought the article to be a good read...

[d26]

Matheny thought it might be the helmet, not the Giants.

The sequence that may well be the last games he plays. Game 1, two hard hits. Took game 2 off, but passed medical tests. Returned for game 3 and took another hard shot and came out of game.

Laymen's guess is he had a more severe injury in game 1 which made the hit in game 3 even worse. The lingering effects are the scary part because they do not seem to be consistant with just one hit.

Personally, I wear a helmet because of field configuration. Have had one hard hit that made me have a headache, I now suspect a concussion. It was a direct center hit. Maybe a helmet style, being more flat in the cage, passes a little more force than a more rounded style. In my case, the ball returned directly forward, as Matheny's last hit did. Can't remember that happening with a mask...

Field configuration will keep me in a helmet.

[JRutledge]

You are using anecdotal information to draw a conclusion. Now that might work for you, but it does not mean that your conclusion is true or based on facts. In order to come to a scientific conclusion you need hundreds if not thousands of samples to draw such a conclusion.

It is fine to feel safer in a helmet. In the 10 years of umpiring and the hundreds of games I have done over my career, I have never been hurt like the umpire was on TV and I have never seen anyone get hurt with a mask. I think it comes down to what you feel. But until there is a comprehensive study, there is continued to be debate about what is safer or better to use.

Peace

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are using anecdotal information to draw a conclusion. Now that might work for you, but it does not mean that your conclusion is true or based on facts. In order to come to a scientific conclusion you need hundreds if not thousands of samples to draw such a conclusion.

It is fine to feel safer in a helmet. In the 10 years of umpiring and the hundreds of games I have done over my career, I have never been hurt like the umpire was on TV and I have never seen anyone get hurt with a mask. I think it comes down to what you feel. But until there is a comprehensive study, there is continued to be debate about what is safer or better to use.

Peace

Jeff,

Have you ever had three 90+ direct hits over a two day span? If so, what were the short and long term results?

It's a well know fact that head injuries aquired over a short span are cumlative (IE: three hits in a short span tend to cause more injury than three hits over a season).

Testing I have seen (Internal testing by a local manufacturer here in SoCal) between the HSM & regular mask indicate:

1. Direct hits have very similar results. Louder to wearer in the HSM.
2. Glancing hits are deflected somewhat better by the HSM

IMO the main reason to switch are view & side/top/rear protection. In many youth and HS fields the backstop is very close to the plate, resulting in an umpire potentially taking shots to the these areas.

[Kaliix]

And that was kinda my point in posting the article. Umpires need to be aware of multiple shots coming off the mask in close proximity, time wise. It can happen and one should be aware the concussion warning signs. Don't get all macho and ignore them.

The HSM stuff is secondary. Both types of masks offer similar impact protection from straight on balls. Past that, it's basically personal preference. I've just seen, heard of and had enough balls/bats come in contact with unprotected head areas that I wear a HSM. Your mileage may vary...

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Jeff,

Have you ever had three 90+ direct hits over a two day span? If so, what were the short and long term results?

It's a well know fact that head injuries aquired over a short span are cumlative (IE: three hits in a short span tend to cause more injury than three hits over a season).

Testing I have seen (Internal testing by a local manufacturer here in SoCal) between the HSM & regular mask indicate:

1. Direct hits have very similar results. Louder to wearer in the HSM.
2. Glancing hits are deflected somewhat better by the HSM

IMO the main reason to switch are view & side/top/rear protection. In many youth and HS fields the backstop is very close to the plate, resulting in an umpire potentially taking shots to the these areas.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Jeff,

Have you ever had three 90+ direct hits over a two day span? If so, what were the short and long term results?

How about 6 times in one game?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by UMP25

How about 6 times in one game?

That answers a few questions ....

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

That answers a few questions ....

Oh man, you beat me to it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Jeff,

Have you ever had three 90+ direct hits over a two day span? If so, what were the short and long term results?

I do not think I have been hit that many times in a week span. Not sure what this is going to prove.

If you love the mask wear it. If it makes you feel safer, wear the mask. I just do not see the point of the question. It is not like what my answer is going to change anyone's mind (which I am not trying to do).

Peace

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think I have been hit that many times in a week span. Not sure what this is going to prove.

If you love the mask wear it. If it makes you feel safer, wear the mask. I just do not see the point of the question. It is not like what my answer is going to change anyone's mind (which I am not trying to do).

Peace

Another classic from our resident nihilist.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

That answers a few questions ....

Indeed.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Kaliix

Did you fail to read the "two testing centers determined that the masks offer similar protection" part of the story. HSM are similar to traditional masks in protection from foul balls, at least straight on. The obvious indisputable part is that they offer protection on the top and sides unlike traditional masks.

I feel bad for Matheny and I thought the article to be a good read...

If both masks offer the same quality of protection, then there is no reason to wear a HSM. Put it away and wear BASEBALL equipment.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by SAump

If both masks offer the same quality of protection, then there is no reason to wear a HSM. Put it away and wear BASEBALL equipment.

SA,

I disagree. There are many HS & youth fields where the backstop more or less encloses the plate area. Lot's of baseballs bouncing around that come back with sufficient velocity to hurt.

An HSM easily makes soem sense in that situation.