OBR Ambidexterous pitcher

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

Did you READ the rule you posted?!?
There are SEVEN EXCEPTIONS, and the penalty applies ONLY if B leaves the box AND DELAYS PLAY, in which case he is charged a strike.

I'm calling BS on that one.

ONE: The rulebook states that there are eight exceptions that allow a batter to leave his batter's box during his time at bat. Box is singular. Batter is entitled to ONE, not both.

Two: The rule states he must continue to stay in the same box throughout the batter’s time at bat. Otherwise, I am wrong and rule should read either box, or allowed to switch from one to the other.

Three: Which rule allows him to leave after any pitch, a called strike or a ball? None. A batter then may not, by rule, switch places in the batters boxes after every single pitch. Sorry to disappoint you.

[Pete in AZ]

Originally Posted by SAump

Batter can't leave the box unless he asks for TIME and PU grants it.

d) The following experimental rule shall be in effect for all National Association Leagues in 2006:
(1) The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the batter’s time at bat, unless one of the following exceptions applies, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate:
(i) The batter swings at a pitch;
(ii) The batter is forced out of the batter’s box by a pitch;
(iii) A member of either team requests and is granted “Time”;
(iv) A defensive player attempts a play on a runner at any base;
(v) The batter feints a bunt;
(vi) A wild pitch or passed ball occurs;
(vii) The pitcher leaves the dirt area of the pitching mound after receiving the ball; or
(viii) The catcher leaves the catcher’s box to give defensive signals.
Notwithstanding Rule 6.02(c), if the batter intentionally leaves the batter’s box and delays play, and none of the exceptions listed in Rule 6.02(d)(1)(i) through (viii) applies, the umpire shall award a strike without the pitcher having to deliver the pitch. The ball shall remain alive.

What is a National Association League?

I think you are confusing the issue in your shot at redemption. This isn't HS or college ball. Your acting like Colonel Klink with the whole "you need permission to do that" baloney. Watch a game tomorrow and see how many times a player asks for Time and the umpire grants it before he steps out of the box.

JJ, where did you find the ambidextrous pitcher ruling? I can believe that the guy can't switch hands to deliver, but short of having two gloves this seems pretty unrealistic.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

What is a National Association League?
I think you are confusing the issue in your shot at redemption. This isn't HS or college ball. Your acting like Colonel Klink with the whole "you need permission to do that" baloney. Watch a game tomorrow and see how many times a player asks for Time and the umpire grants it before he steps out of the box.

Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Begin with Lance Berkman, Carlos Beltran, Chipper Jones. They have never done it. I know they are today's power switch-hitters.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by SAump

Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Begin with Lance Berkman, Carlos Beltran, Chipper Jones. They have never done it. I know they are today's power switch-hitters.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

Because there's no practical or strategic reason for doing so, NOT because it is against the rules.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAump

What rule allows the batter to switch boxes on a whim? [/B]

We've already answered this, SA. 6.06(b) prohibits the batter from switching places when the pitcher is ready to pitch. A reasonable assumption is that the batter can switch before the pitcher is ready to pitch.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

What is a National Association League?

FYI- A National Association League is any league that is a member of The National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues (ie Minor League Baseball Leagues except the Indy leagues).

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SAump

Name 1 MLB switch hitter in the the last 100 years who is known for switching boxes after every pitch.
Name 2 MLB players that led off the game in 1 box and then switched places after the first pitch in the last 10 years.
Ask yourself, why is it so hard to name any?

Becaue they only do it when when the pitcher throws a rising fastball.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by SAump

ONE: The rulebook states that there are eight exceptions that allow a batter to leave his batter's box during his time at bat.

which helps your argument, HOW?

Originally Posted by SAump

Two: The rule states he must continue to stay in the same box throughout the batter’s time at bat. Otherwise, I am wrong and rule should read either box, or allowed to switch from one to the other.

Where in the Rule does it say he must remain in the SAME box "throughout ..."? Ain't there that I can see. So, I'll pick "Otherwise, [you (SAump) are] wrong."

Originally Posted by SAump

Three: Which rule allows him to leave after any pitch, a called strike or a ball? None. A batter then may not, by rule, switch places in the batters boxes after every single pitch. Sorry to disappoint you.

Default condition in Baseball: if it is not, by Rule, prohibited - it is permitted. There are darn few exceptions to this principle: can't think of one, off-hand. Absent a penalty [of which there is NONE here, unless a delay of game is created], no reasonable person can even argue for an implied prohibition.
I'm NOT disapointed: your lack of knowledge or insight into the Rules and customs of the game of baseball as shown in this thread is exactly as I have come to expect from you.

[SAump]

(2) The batter may leave the batter’s box and the dirt area surrounding home plate when “Time” is called for the purpose of
(i) making a substitution; or
(ii) a conference by either team.

(2) (i) Batter may switch from one box to another during one at-bat. By rule, he must call time first and allow the defense fair notice. Defense may also acknowledge an unannounced substitution by allowing batter into other box and delivering a pitch. If defense complains about the switch, the UIC should determine whether to allow it or not. UIC, according to rules, customs and traditions; should not allow game delay or unsportmanship behavior to occur. Offense will be warned to "STAY in BOX" and a strike will be awarded after each occurence.

edited to add emphasis

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by SAump

(2) The batter may leave the batter’s box and the dirt area surrounding home plate when “Time” is called for the purpose of
(i) making a substitution; or
(ii) a conference by either team.

(2) (i) Batter may switch from one box to another during one at-bat. By rule, he must call time first and allow the defense fair notice. Defense may also acknowledge an unannounced substitution by allowing batter into other box and delivering a pitch. If defense complains about the switch, the UIC should determine whether to allow it or not. UIC, according to rules, customs and traditions; should not allow game delay or unsportmanship behavior to occur. Offense will be warned to "STAY in BOX" and a strike will be awarded after each occurence.

WARNING TO NEWBIES:
SAump is halucinating, again; whether it's DT's or left-handed ciggies, we can't tell you, but the foregoing quoted drivel is applicable and correct only in pink-elephant Calvinball. Suggest you disregard.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

Default condition in Baseball: if it is not, by Rule, prohibited - it is permitted. There are darn few exceptions to this principle: can't think of one, off-hand.

Sorry CB, have to disagree here: plenty of things are neither explicitly prohibited nor permitted in the rules. R2 may not dig a moat around 2B, for example. Neither can R1, for that matter...

Examples like that seem dumb, of course, but the point is that the rules are NEITHER an exhaustive list of what is prohibited in baseball, NOR an exhaustive list of what is permitted. No sound argument deploys reasoning of the form "Since the rules don't explicitly forbid/permit that, it must be permitted/forbidden."

The rules are rough guidelines to how the game should be played, and they must be interpreted with wisdom, experience, and good sense. An umpire lacking any one of these will err.

And a sense of humor doesn't hurt, either.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Sorry CB, have to disagree here: plenty of things are neither explicitly prohibited nor permitted in the rules. R2 may not dig a moat around 2B, for example. Neither can R1, for that matter...
Examples like that seem dumb, of course, but the point is that the rules are NEITHER an exhaustive list of what is prohibited in baseball, NOR an exhaustive list of what is permitted. No sound argument deploys reasoning of the form "Since the rules don't explicitly forbid/permit that, it must be permitted/forbidden."

The rules are rough guidelines to how the game should be played, and they must be interpreted with wisdom, experience, and good sense. An umpire lacking any one of these will err.

And a sense of humor doesn't hurt, either.

Not to pick an argument when we don't, on anything that matters, disagree....

However: name me ONE actual game sitch [ie: no moats around the bases, please] where the accepted or correct ruling does not fit the condition I have proposed - IOW, where something is prohibited or penalised based on the absence of a rule PERMITTING it. I don't think you will find one.

Even the "example" you have given [unauthorised landscaping of the infield] fits if you then ask the question: so what's the penalty? Let's us just assume that R2 begins excavation of that moat we both agree he ain't gonna be permitted to construct....he's, what? Out for interference [oops, that's a rule (against offensive interference) that explicitly PROHIBITS the action in question]? Ejected for disregarding an umpire's directive per 9.01b (please note, NOT "c") - [oops - prohibitory Rule, again]? WHAT?! What's the penalty? Where does it [the penalty] come from?

I admit that my outlook on this is somewhat colored by a principle from my day job: a "crime" with no penalty is no crime at all.

In general, when someone goes at a baseball problem looking for "what rule permits 'em to do X...", or "reasons" that because they can't find a rule permitting something, that it is or ought to be prohibited/ penalised - they are on the wrong track, and they often err by inventing "Rules" and rulings which are unsupported by anything other than their own whim and fiat [no, not the car].

Originally Posted by mbyron

The rules are rough guidelines to how the game should be played, and they must be interpreted with wisdom, experience, and good sense. An umpire lacking any one of these will err.

And a sense of humor doesn't hurt, either.

THAT part I agree with and endorse wholeheartedly.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

Did you READ the rule you posted?!?
There are {SEVEN} EXCEPTIONS, and the penalty applies {ONLY} if B leaves the box AND DELAYS PLAY, in which case he is charged a strike.

I'm calling BS on that one.

Batter cannot repeatedly switch from one box to the other.
Add a STRIKE to the batter's count.
Batter must stay in the box.
If batter wants to leave the box, call TIME.
Otherwise, batter is not allowed to leave the BOX.
Any questions?

[Dave Hensley]

SAump has become a broken record.

Either that, or he's using an auto-responder in this thread.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

However: name me ONE actual game sitch [ie: no moats around the bases, please] where the accepted or correct ruling does not fit the condition I have proposed - IOW, where something is prohibited or penalised based on the absence of a rule PERMITTING it. I don't think you will find one.

By "actual game sitch" do you mean some action explicitly provided for in the rules? Petitio principii.

Originally Posted by cbfoulds

Even the "example" you have given [unauthorised landscaping of the infield] fits if you then ask the question: so what's the penalty? Let's us just assume that R2 begins excavation of that moat we both agree he ain't gonna be permitted to construct....he's, what? Out for interference [oops, that's a rule (against offensive interference) that explicitly PROHIBITS the action in question]? Ejected for disregarding an umpire's directive per 9.01b (please note, NOT "c") - [oops - prohibitory Rule, again]? WHAT?! What's the penalty? Where does it [the penalty] come from?

You're making my point: umpires have escape clauses like 9.01b (and c) in order to catch things that are NOT EXPLICITLY prohibited by rule. And as we all know, that opens those rules to abuse by the officious.

At least we agree about the important points.