Can checked swing be a 'fourth out' appeal?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Chukinrox

The question is ... if the plate umpire rules it a ball or couldn't see it because the catcher blocked him out, and the catcher made a throw to second because he didn't hear the ump call a strike, can he now appeal to the base umpire about whether the batter swung or not? We all know that 95% of the time you cannot tell whether a batter swung while in the B position but would this be a proper appeal or not is the question?

We DON'T all know this.

I can call a check swing just as well from B or C as I can from A or D. Saying otherwise just perpetuates this myth.

[Chukinrox]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

We DON'T all know this.

I can call a check swing just as well from B or C as I can from A or D. Saying otherwise just perpetuates this myth.

If you can stand on the third base side of a field and tell a coach that his batter definitely swung on a legitimately close check swing then if the coach knows anythign about baseball will be riding you... Theres an impossible angle.

[JJ]

R1, R2, two out, two strikes on the batter. Runners stealing on the pitch, which is a check swing in the dirt. PU calls "ball", catcher throws to third to try to retire the stealing R2. Third baseman misses the tag, but he is touching the bag when he takes the throw. Defense appeals the check swing, and the BU says "Yes, he went".
Where is the out recorded? And who leads off next inning? As soon as it became a dropped third strike, it became a force at third base, and the third baseman WAS touching the base when he took the throw....hmmm....

I love this game -
JJ

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by JJ

R1, R2, two out, two strikes on the batter. Runners stealing on the pitch, which is a check swing in the dirt. PU calls "ball", catcher throws to third to try to retire the stealing R2. Third baseman misses the tag, but he is touching the bag when he takes the throw. Defense appeals the check swing, and the BU says "Yes, he went".
Where is the out recorded? And who leads off next inning? As soon as it became a dropped third strike, it became a force at third base, and the third baseman WAS touching the base when he took the throw....hmmm....

I love this game -
JJ

JJ, what an amazingly unique and previously unthought of situation (see above!!!)

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Chukinrox

If you can stand on the third base side of a field and tell a coach that his batter definitely swung on a legitimately close check swing then if the coach knows anythign about baseball will be riding you... Theres an impossible angle.

If you can stand on the third base side of a field and not be able to tell a coach that his better offered on a legitimately close check swing, then you are looking for the wrong evidence.

[Tim C]

"If you can stand on the third base side of a field and tell a coach that his batter definitely swung on a legitimately close check swing then if the coach knows anythign about baseball will be riding you... Theres an impossible angle."

As I have intoned many, many times:

People that defend this logic either don't understand the checked/unchecked swing rule or do not have the guts to make a tough call.

A well trained umpire can easily make this call from either "B" or "C".

Regards,

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Chukinrox

If you can stand on the third base side of a field and tell a coach that his batter definitely swung on a legitimately close check swing then if the coach knows anythign about baseball will be riding you... Theres an impossible angle.

Then he'll get ejected just like anyone else who argues balls and strikes.

Sack up and do your job.

[DG]

Check swing is easy call from A, B, C, or D. But some can't see a batter standing on the plate when making contact with a pitch. Holy cow!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

Check swing is easy call from A, B, C, or D. But some can't see a batter standing on the plate when making contact with a pitch. Holy cow!

I'm not looking for it. There's a difference.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I'm not looking for it. There's a difference.

I'm not looking for it either, but I can't miss it when I see it, it's right there in front of me and I am locked in and perfectly still. When the batter plants his foot on the plate the out call if he makes contact is far more important than a strike or ball call anyway.

[SanDiegoSteve]

How about we just leave it at the umpires who would call it, call it, and the umpires that would not call it, don't. This argument is getting tired.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

I would say, since it was not called a strike orginally (Appeal afterwards), the out would be by the guy thrown out at second, and batter is back up next inning.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

I would say, since it was not called a strike orginally (Appeal afterwards), the out would be by the guy thrown out at second, and batter is back up next inning.

Then you would be wrong.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

I would say, since it was not called a strike orginally (Appeal afterwards), the out would be by the guy thrown out at second, and batter is back up next inning.

Do you have any rules basis for saying such a thing? Or any defense for it if protested?

Let's expand it a bit to further illustrate the point. Make it R1 and R3, a double steal. R1 holds up long enough for R3 to score, and R1 is then tagged. The defense then appeals the swing, and batter is called out. Do you score the run? (Of course not ... because the BR was the 3rd out ... same as if R3 did not exist.)