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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jul 14, 2006, 12:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylejt
Well, I hope you did nothing on this play.

Was R3 in contact with the bag when the pitch reached the batter? If yes, no flag. If no, drop the flag.

It's as simple as that folks.
Kyle:

The runner has to be in contact with the base at the time the ball is pitched or he's violated 7.13. In fact, a literal interpretation of 7.13 would suggest he needs to be back in contact as soon as the battery is set.


Tim.
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Old Fri Jul 14, 2006, 03:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56
Kyle:

The runner has to be in contact with the base at the time the ball is pitched or he's violated 7.13. In fact, a literal interpretation of 7.13 would suggest he needs to be back in contact as soon as the battery is set.


Tim.
The literal wording of 7.13 can be misapplied to mean a whole lot. The intention is to keep the runners from getting a head start. Period. If a pitcher sees a runner walking back to the back, and starts his motion, it's nothing. The runner can't leave before the pitch reaches the batter. Having the battery set only applies if the runner decides to take off. If he's not in contact during the motion, but gets back before the ball reaches the batter, we're in compliance with the letter, and the intent of the rule.

Again, JMHO and YMMV.
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Old Fri Jul 14, 2006, 04:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylejt
The literal wording of 7.13 can be misapplied to mean a whole lot. The intention is to keep the runners from getting a head start. Period. If a pitcher sees a runner walking back to the back, and starts his motion, it's nothing. The runner can't leave before the pitch reaches the batter. Having the battery set only applies if the runner decides to take off. If he's not in contact during the motion, but gets back before the ball reaches the batter, we're in compliance with the letter, and the intent of the rule.

Again, JMHO and YMMV.
Try getting this one passed a protest committee. The rule is abundantly clear that the runner must be on the bag at the time the pitcher is ready to deliver the ball. There's no wiggle room here. If he's returning when the ball is delivered he's in violation. I was of the same opinion that you are until Andy Konyar responded to an e-mail I sent him last Summer. He set me straight in a hurry.


Tim.

Last edited by BigUmp56; Fri Jul 14, 2006 at 04:08pm.
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Old Fri Jul 14, 2006, 05:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56
Try getting this one passed a protest committee. The rule is abundantly clear that the runner must be on the bag at the time the pitcher is ready to deliver the ball. There's no wiggle room here. If he's returning when the ball is delivered he's in violation. I was of the same opinion that you are until Andy Konyar responded to an e-mail I sent him last Summer. He set me straight in a hurry.


Tim.

Using the book, or Andys words, you can drop the flag if a runner raises his foot off the bag at any time between when the catcher faces the pitcher, to when the pitch reaches the batter.

I choose not enforce that interpretation, but there's enough fuzziness in the wording for us all to be right. Thus the real problem.

As you can probably tell, I don't lock-step to everything that Andy sez.


Kyle
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Old Fri Jul 14, 2006, 08:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylejt
Using the book, or Andys words, you can drop the flag if a runner raises his foot off the bag at any time between when the catcher faces the pitcher, to when the pitch reaches the batter.

I choose not enforce that interpretation, but there's enough fuzziness in the wording for us all to be right. Thus the real problem.

As you can probably tell, I don't lock-step to everything that Andy sez.


Kyle
Thats right. Why go by the book or apply the rules the way the UIC for the largest national youth baseball organization suggests when you can make your own stuff up. Give me a break, Kyle. It's no wonder why other umpires call all LL umpires Smitties.


Tim.
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Old Fri Jul 14, 2006, 10:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56
Thats right. Why go by the book or apply the rules the way the UIC for the largest national youth baseball organization suggests when you can make your own stuff up. Give me a break, Kyle. It's no wonder why other umpires call all LL umpires Smitties.


Tim.

Easy now big guy.

The book states "When a pitcher is in contact with the pitcher's plate and in possession of the ball and the catcher is in the catcher's box ready to receive delivery of the ball, base runners shall not leave their bases until the ball has been delivered and has reached the batter".

A strict translation means if any runner is not in contact with a base when the pitcher and catcher are set, the umpires will drop their flags. We know that's not correct, but that's the way it reads. If we went by the letter of the wording F1 and F2 would race to their spots in order catch runners off base.

We all know the intention of this rule. And yes, there are widely varying translations to the above wording. Some go by the actual intent of the rule, and others by gospel of the green book. Third party edicts from Andy should be taken as seriously as the "a few stickers on a helmet are okay" statments from last year. (read: not very)

The intent is to keep the runner from gaining an advantage to the next base. But if an umpire is going to drop his flag because the battery is set before he gets back to the bag, or he momentarily lifts his foot off and on the base during the windup, who's the Smitty? I'm going with the spirit in which the rule was written, and not poorly crafted words that made it into the book.

Last edited by kylejt; Fri Jul 14, 2006 at 10:08pm.
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Old Fri Jul 14, 2006, 10:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylejt
Easy now big guy.

The book states "When a pitcher is in contact with the pitcher's plate and in possession of the ball and the catcher is in the catcher's box ready to receive delivery of the ball, base runners shall not leave their bases until the ball has been delivered and has reached the batter".

A strict translation means if any runner is not in contact with a base when the pitcher and catcher are set, the umpires will drop their flags. We know that's not correct, but that's the way it reads. If we went by the letter of the wording F1 and F2 would race to their spots in order catch runners off base.
If the pitcher and catcher decide to rush the game along, I for one will do my best to encourage it. I will also ask my partner to do the same thing. Hour and a half time limit set for the game. One side decides to rush a pitch every 12 seconds or less. Hey, runners beware. As a result, the game ends in 1 hour 10 minutes. Umps now have an extra twenty minute rest period before the next game. Time for that soda and hotdog.

Last edited by SAump; Fri Jul 14, 2006 at 10:39pm.
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Old Sat Jul 15, 2006, 12:05pm
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Please note

Even though the rule doesn't spell out what the off-base runner is doing, I flagged him because he was standing flat-footed off the base, making no attempt to return, when F1 was beginning his pitch.

This, for me, amplifies the violation, causing the hanky.

Ace
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Old Sat Jul 15, 2006, 01:21pm
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Ace ...................

Quote:
Originally Posted by aceholleran
Even though the rule doesn't spell out what the off-base runner is doing, I flagged him because he was standing flat-footed off the base, making no attempt to return, when F1 was beginning his pitch.

This, for me, amplifies the violation, causing the hanky.

Ace

FWIW, I think your application of this rule is spot-on. I know you'll probably sleep alot better tonight knowing I agree with you.




Doug
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