7-8-06 Cardinals @ Astros

[jwwashburn]

I do not want my lack of confidence in Bob Davidson's judgement to color my opinion of this play.

In the bottom of the 11th, Roy Oswalt was pinch hitting with 2 outs and hit what appeared to be a double. La Russa asked for his team to appeal that Oswalt did not touch first base. Davidson called him out. The replays show that he was, at least, EXTREMELY close to the base. He did not step on top of the base, that much id for darn sure. He may or may not have touched it. Jose Cruz, Sr. was coaching first and did some gyrations and may have said something that might have influenced Davidson

Questions for those who have seen the replays or saw it live.

1) I was taught to call out a runner on an appeal of this sort ONLY if I am sure that he missed the base. Am I right in this standard? From what I can see, there is no freaking way that Davidson could be sure that Oswalt missed the base.

2) Was Davidson where he belonged on this play?

3) Are you as shocked as I am that Garner did not go out and murder Davidson?

Joe

[PatF]

I saw the game and this play. Base Ump was looking at the base, but there was no way he could see either a "touch" or "no touch" by Oswalt from where he was standing. he obsereved the play from position A. I'm not sure that moving a couple of steps into fair territory would have improved his angle on this play, but it certainly could not have hurt.

First base coach, Jose Cruz, made some sort of motions/pointing, etc. as Oswalt ran by, but not sure why or what he was trying to signal. ESPN had two different angles on the replay and it was impossible to tell for sure that Oswalt did not touch the base.

The umpire had to be influenced by the actions of Cruz. I suspect the Cards only appealed the missed base because of Cruz's actions, because it certainly appeared that Oswalt had touched the base... even in slow-mo replay.

I do not know how he could have ruled that the runer missed the base, when there was no possible way he could have seen it. He was simply guessing, and it appears that he guessed wrong. Tough call right or wrong.

[mbyron]

There are some situations where you can judge by player reaction what happened. I was taught that this is not one of them: call an out on appeal only when you saw one yourself, unmistakeably.

That said, I must say it's annoying when, all game long, I've had touches and tags at a given base, and then some coach wants an appeal. When I signal "safe" he mutters, "eh, he wasn't watching." Yeah, right coach.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Are you as shocked as I am that Garner did not go out and murder Davidson?

In the Houston Chronicle today, it says that Garner agreed with Davidson's call.

[scottyman51]

I've had this happen before to me when i've umped. Coach argued that the runner didnt touch third,and i was stuck at home with a play coming in,and my baseump was stuck with his duties at first and second as a possible play there. Neither one of us saw it so we had to rule he did touch it because if you dont see it you have to call the guy safe,whether he was or wasnt.

Not a surprize Davidson was part of this. I dont think he's that great of an ump,i didnt see the play so i'm going off of what you guys have said but it appears he made the right call,but if he didnt see it,he should have said safe.Oh well stuff like that happens.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by PatF

I do not know how he could have ruled that the runer missed the base, when there was no possible way he could have seen it. He was simply guessing, and it appears that he guessed wrong. Tough call right or wrong.

I say--EASY call.

Davidson did not see him miss the base so he MUST call safe!

Instead of a runner in scoring position with the leadoff batter coming up, the inning was over and the Astros lost the game in the next inning.

He had time to think it over. He KNEW he did not see Oswalt miss the base. He decided to make a horse-dookey call.

Joe

[LDUB]

Why are you guys going off on Davidson? Did you not see that the team's manager agreed with the call?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Why are you guys going off on Davidson? Did you not see that the team's manager agreed with the call?

I am a Tigers fan, I have always thought Garner was a moron, anyway.

Whether Oswalt missed the base or not is not the issue here.

The issue is that Davidson made a lousy call because he could not have known if Oswalt missed the base.

Joe

[LMan]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Whether Oswalt missed the base or not is not the issue here.

The issue is that Davidson made a lousy call because he could not have known if Oswalt missed the base.

A rat could not have said it any better (or worse as the case may be).

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by LMan

A rat could not have said it any better (or worse as the case may be).

Oh good grief!

So, as long as the umpire guesses right(which there is no evidence that he did in this case) it is ok that he was just guessing?

Davidson made the WRONG call because he did not see Oswalt miss the base.

Joe

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Oh good grief!

So, as long as the umpire guesses right(which there is no evidence that he did in this case) it is ok that he was just guessing?

Davidson made the WRONG call because he did not see Oswalt miss the base.

Joe

And you can say this with 100% certainty? Don't get me wrong. I think Davidson is a poor professional umpire, but I'm wondering how you can say for sure he didn't see him miss the bag.


Tim.

[ctblu40]

How is it possible that people can say with certainty Davidson was guessing?

I find it amazing that all of you know what he saw and what he didn't see based on watching him on TV in your livingroom...

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

And you can say this with 100% certainty? Don't get me wrong. I think Davidson is a poor professional umpire, but I'm wondering how you can say for sure he didn't see him miss the bag.


Tim.

Wellllll, for one thing, he is a poor professional umpire

The slow motion replays could not show for sure and they had a better angle than he did. He was looking at it full speed from down the line. Oswalt's foot came down right by the home plate side of the base.

And, he is a hack.

Joe

[mcrowder]

I can't say for 100% certainty whether Oswalt touched the bag or not... but I saw the play, and from 3 cameras (someone said there were only 2 angles on ESPN - there were three). All I'm certain of is that there was no way Davidson could have seen the miss from where he was standing. The foot was VERY close (if not touching), and Davidson was blocked from seeing whether there was a miss by the base itself.

If you'd seen the replay, you would not question this either.

That said, I'm POSITIVE this one was Cruz's fault. He made some sort of arm motion and perhaps uttered something. As the coach you can't halfway this call. Either do NOTHING, or you're yelling, "BACK BACK BACK" at the runner.

Based on his reaction during the play, Oswalt's reaction after and Garner's lack of reaction, I suspect he missed it. But there's NO QUESTION Davidson guessed this call or based it on the actions of Cruz.

[jwwashburn]

I think it was probably Cruz's actions that caused Davidson to make such a lousy call.

That is an explanation, not an excuse, though. The excuse is that he is a poor professional umpire.