Catcher's Balk ?

[NFump]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

3. If the defense is NOT intentionally walking the batter, I believe that the catcher may "...leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a play.... I believe this because that IS what the rule says, the JEA case play makes it perfectly clear that it is legal, and there is NO rule (or interpretation) that says otherwise.

JM

Note the bold type.

[LakeErieUmp]

And a PITCH is not delivered until the pitcher engages. And makes a definitive movement toward the plate. Which means the catcher is glued to the box until such movement- which is maybe a split-second until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand. Thus precluding the catcher from setting up outside the box. As I suggested.

[UmpJM]

LakeErieUmp,

Glad to see you took my comments in the spirit intended. I was, of course referencing:

Rule 12.06

(c)(2) During the course of the game ONLY COACHES are allowed to make up rules which have no foundation in the text, official interpretations, or history of the rules. APPROVED RULING: While the umpire may, at his sole discretion, entertain discussion of such made up rules with the coach (strictly for the entertaiment value), there will be NO ENFORCEMENT of any such rules.

That one I made up.

However, I did not make up either of the following. First, from JEA (my emphasis):

With a runner on third...the pitcher is working from the wind-up position. The pitcher starts his motion and the runner breaks for home. With a left-handed batter at bat...the catcher steps out into the rear of the right-handed batter's box to take the pitch..and easily tags out the runner.

RULING: This runner is out. The catcher may leave his position behind the plate anytime except when an intentional walk is being given. The catcher, of course, cannot step on or in front of home plate while the pitch is en route.

Additionally, from the BRD we have:

Note 297-285: During a pitch-out the catcher may jump from his box at any time, regardless of whether the pitcher has started his preliminary motion.

I find absolutely NO SUPPORT for your assertion that "...the catcher SHALL be behind the plate, UNTIL he has to catch a pitch. ...". The rule certainly doesn't say that. The authoritative opinions don't say that.

The ONLY times a catcher can "create" a balk are:

1. During an intentional walk.

2. During a steal of home or squeeze play by interfering with the batter's opportunity to hit the pitch.

So, again, I say if you call a balk because the catcher "left the box" in ANY other circumstance, you are just plain wrong. There is NO support for such a call in either the rules or ANY recognized interpretation.

JM

[ctblu40]

LakeErie-

I think you're misunderstanding 4.03(a). I read it as follows:

4.03 When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory.
(a) The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate.

So this is saying that I can't put the ball in play unless the catcher is directly behind the plate.

He may leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a play except that when the batter is being given an intentional base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher’s box until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand.

In this sentence, the only time the catcher is restricted to having both feet in the catchers box is during an intentional base on balls.

This is how this rule was explained to me. Whaddaya think?

[LakeErieUmp]

Beating upon the dead horse, 4.03 has to be read in combination with which defines what a pitch is. If the catcher has to be behind the plate UNTIL the pitch, then he cannot leave UNTIL a pitch, which is defined by 2.00 as a ball delivered to a batter, and 8.01 etc. which defines a pitch as a ball delivered appropriately to a batter.
Again, I'm not picking nits. I have no problem with a catcher jumping out to snare a pitch up the third base line to nail a stealing R3. I just do NOT see where a catcher can SET UP out of the box BEFORE a pitch.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by PWL

Catchers don't balk.......

Pitchers balk........

But I suppose the Legion knew that.....

Ah, the High and the Mighty........

The catcher commits this balk and the balk is charged to the pitcher. That's why it's been known as a "catchers balk" for as long as I can remember.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Once again, from JEA:

The umpire should not allow play to commence unless the catcher positions himself directly back of home plate. He may leave this position in compliance with Rule 4.03(a).

And from good old Rule 2.00:

The CATCHER'S BOX is that area within which the catcher shall stand until the pitcher delivers the ball. (remember the proper interp of delivering the ball, don't take it literally)

Put that with JM's and ctblu40's explanations, and that is the way to rule on it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PWL

Catchers don't balk.......

Pitchers balk........

But I suppose the Legion knew that.....

Ah, the High and the Mighty........

So ya had a bad day......

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

Beating upon the dead horse, 4.03 has to be read in combination with which defines what a pitch is. If the catcher has to be behind the plate UNTIL the pitch, then he cannot leave UNTIL a pitch, which is defined by 2.00 as a ball delivered to a batter, and 8.01 etc. which defines a pitch as a ball delivered appropriately to a batter.
Again, I'm not picking nits. I have no problem with a catcher jumping out to snare a pitch up the third base line to nail a stealing R3. I just do NOT see where a catcher can SET UP out of the box BEFORE a pitch.

LakeErieUmp,

Where are you getting this "...If the catcher has to be behind the plate UNTIL the pitch, then he cannot leave UNTIL a pitch,..." business?

I can't find ANYTHING that says this (with the exception of an IBB) anywhere - not in the text of the rules, not in JEA, not in J/R, not in the BRD, and not in the MLBUM.

Perhaps you have a misconception on this point.

JM

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

So ya had a bad day......

Would that be our new American "Idle?"

he-he


Tim.

[BigUmp56]

I like the hide your head in shame and slither back under a rock idea. Feeling guilty for posting bad info again?


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

PWL,

You remove posts where you've messed up all the freakin time, so don't go there.

I did not hide for two days. I was off the computer for one day because I was not home and had no access to a computer. Not that I should have to answer to you for my whereabouts. You sure do pay way too much attention to what I do. Why don't you just stick to getting rule interpretations wrong, and leave my personal business alone.

And I'll post my beliefs any old time I want to, because I'm certainly not ashamed of them. I would have deleted the whole thread, but I wanted certain links to remain up in case one wanted to peruse them.

When I came back, the following day, what was I supposed to do, issue an apology? I don't think so. I responded the way I did and I'll respond the same the next time someone opens up that can of worms. You need to start minding your own business, but I don't think you're capable of doing so.

And don't end with smiley faces when your posts are not in the least bit intended to be humorous. All they are is pathetically sad.

Edited to add: I'm leaving this post up, even though PWL has deleted his posts which led to this one.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

Beating upon the dead horse, 4.03 has to be read in combination with which defines what a pitch is. If the catcher has to be behind the plate UNTIL the pitch, then he cannot leave UNTIL a pitch, which is defined by 2.00 as a ball delivered to a batter, and 8.01 etc. which defines a pitch as a ball delivered appropriately to a batter.
Again, I'm not picking nits. I have no problem with a catcher jumping out to snare a pitch up the third base line to nail a stealing R3. I just do NOT see where a catcher can SET UP out of the box BEFORE a pitch.

OK, looking at it from a slightly different perspective, granting you your interpretation of the catcher's illegal act - where do you see in the rules that the penalty for what you think the catcher can't do is a balk?