DB Strike in Little League

[Stat-Man]

Do little league baseall rules have the Dead Ball Strike rule at all levels? I have an acquaintancce that is a LL Mom who thinks I'm full of it when I mentioned it should have been invoked in her game, as described, last night.

[UmpJM]

Stat-Man,

Well, yes and no. I presume this is the LL rule you are referring to:

6.02 --
(c) If the batter refuses to take a position in the batter's box during a time at bat, the umpire shall order the pitcher to pitch, and shall call "Strike" on each such pitch. The batter may take a proper position after any such pitch, and the regular ball and strike count shall continue, but if the batter does not take a proper position before three strikes are called, that batter shall be declared out.

This rule is in effect at all levels of LL baseball, but is generally considered a "rule of last resort"; do everything to encourage the player to get in the box, and only invoke this rule if it's really necessary to keep the game moving.

Until the "23 changes" introduced this year, under OBR-based rules the ball remained "live and in play" during such a "directed strike". Under the "new" OBR, the ball is dead during a "directed strike". I do not believe (but am not certain) that LL has adopted this rule change as of yet.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Unless he is talking about a pitch that hits the batter in the strike zone, or hits the batter on a pitch that he offered at, which is commonly referred to as a "dead ball strike." This is the same in all rule codes, LL or otherwise.

Stat-Man, is this what you meant? If so, the lady is probably one of those "hands part of the bat" mental giants.

[Stat-Man]

Actually what I was thinking of was this:
Batter swings and misses at the pitch, and it hits him/her.

The scenario that was described to me was that the ball hit the batter on the hand as he swung and (presumably) went into fair territory. Defense throws the BR out at 1st for the out.

I was under the impression that if the ball hits the hands, it's a dead ball, HBP. And that since the batter swung, it would be a strike on the batter.

She think's I'm splitting hairs, because it sounds like he had two strikes already and would be out either way, but I am curious to know if I am correct about this rule or not.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

Actually what I was thinking of was this:
Batter swings and misses at the pitch, and it his him/her.

The scenario that was described to me was that the ball hit the batter on the hand as he swung and (presumably) went into fair territory. Defense throws the BR out at 1st for the out.

I was under the impression that if the ball hits the hands, it's a dead ball, HBP. And that since the batter swung, it would be a strike on the batter.

She think's I'm splitting hairs, because it sounds like he had two strikes already and would be out either way, but I am curious to know if I am correct about this rule or not.

If he was swinging at the pitch when it hit him it's a dead ball strike three and the batter is out. It doesn't matter if the ball was hit into fair territory or not. The ball is immediatly dead, and on a dead ball no runners may advance and no runners may be put out.

Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

Actually what I was thinking of was this:
Batter swings and misses at the pitch, and it hits him/her.

The scenario that was described to me was that the ball hit the batter on the hand as he swung and (presumably) went into fair territory. Defense throws the BR out at 1st for the out.

I was under the impression that if the ball hits the hands, it's a dead ball, HBP. And that since the batter swung, it would be a strike on the batter.

She think's I'm splitting hairs, because it sounds like he had two strikes already and would be out either way, but I am curious to know if I am correct about this rule or not.

You would be right, the batter is out on the third strike, dead ball. You call, "Time, strike 3." Then get ready for the coach to tell you that "the hands are part of the bat." Then you get to explain how they most definitely are not! Tell the lady you aren't splitting hairs, you are correctly stating the rule.

What if he would have been safe at first? Then it wouldn't be splitting hairs, it would have just been a travesty instead!

[UmpJM]

Stat-Man,

I see SD Steve caught the drift of your question and I did not.

You are correct in your understanding on the question you pose.
The reason it is NOT "splitting hairs", is because no runners can advance on the "dead ball strike three", while if the BR is thrown out on a fair batted ball (assuming less than two outs at the time) any other runners would be free to attempt to advance.

JM

[BigUmp56]

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to show us the error of our ways in giving rulings. He'll no doubt claim that a batted ball that hits the hands first is a live ball in play if it's caught by a second fielder on a deflection over the grandstands.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to show us the error of our ways in giving rulings. He'll no doubt claim that a batted ball that hits the hands first is a live ball in play if it's caught by a second fielder on a deflection over the grandstands.


Tim.

Now Tim, let's play nice now!

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Now Tim, let's play nice now!

Like that's going to make a difference. I've tried before, only to have it thrown back in my face.


Tim.

[LakeErieUmp]

Tim - to be accurate wouldn't we want to explain it as a ball DEFLECTING into fair territory, not a ball "hit" into fair territory. This is not nit-picking (i don't think), it's more like the accuracy of a "foul tip" existing only if it's caught. And there is a big difference between a hit (batted) ball and a hit batsmen.

Otherwise, nice discussion here.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

Tim - to be accurate wouldn't we want to explain it as a ball DEFLECTING into fair territory, not a ball "hit" into fair territory. This is not nit-picking (i don't think), it's more like the accuracy of a "foul tip" existing only if it's caught. And there is a big difference between a hit (batted) ball and a hit batsmen.

Otherwise, nice discussion here.

I see what you mean

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp

Tim - to be accurate wouldn't we want to explain it as a ball DEFLECTING into fair territory, not a ball "hit" into fair territory. This is not nit-picking (i don't think), it's more like the accuracy of a "foul tip" existing only if it's caught. And there is a big difference between a hit (batted) ball and a hit batsmen.

Otherwise, nice discussion here.

I'm not sure if my sarcasm was lost on you, or yours on me.


Tim.

[LakeErieUmp]

I didn't write mine with any sarcasm so maybe i missed yours.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm not sure if my sarcasm was lost on you, or yours on me.


Tim.

Tim,

I didn't think he was being sarcastic. I believe he was referring to your use of the word "hit" in your initial post on this thread - which might lead a neophyte to believe that the ball had been "batted" - rather than "deflecting" off the batter before ending up in fair territory.

I don't believe he was suggesting you were unaware of this distinction (nor am I), but rather there might be a better way to express your comment in a more "technically correct" way.

JM