Missed first base and then tagged

[GrizzlyUmp14]

Varsity summer baseball - not the best game I've ever seen. There is a ground ball to the first baseman, which he bobbles. He eventually gets the ball and attempts to tag the runner, but misses him. The runner does not touch first base, but instead runs over it. The fielder then tags the runner. Is he out or not? Some other umpires said this would have to be an appeal play for missing a bag because once the runner "passes" a base, he has acquired that base. If that is the case, does tagging a runner count as an appeal or does the fielder have to verbally appeal the missed base?

[UmpJM]

GrizzlyUmp14,

If the BR is tagged while off the base, having missed 1B, he is out.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Yes, Griz, the fact that F3 went after him and tagged him qualifies as an unmistakable appeal, with no verbalization necessary.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

GrizzlyUmp14,

If the BR is tagged while off the base, having missed 1B, he is out.

JM

I have to disagree. BR is allowed to over run 1B. When he passes the bag, the BR has achieved the bag for purpose of the rule. Merely tagging him is not enough, an appeal must be an unmistakable act (as SDS writes) or a verbal request.

[UmpJM]

tcarilli,

So, if an R1 takes off on the pitch, and the batter hits a fly ball to the F9, who catches it and throws to the F3, who tags the base prior to the R1 retouching, I assume you would rule "SAFE!" ??? (BTW, neither the F3 nor the F9 said anything.)

JM

[DG]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

I have to disagree. BR is allowed to over run 1B. When he passes the bag, the BR has achieved the bag for purpose of the rule. Merely tagging him is not enough, an appeal must be an unmistakable act (as SDS writes) or a verbal request.

So if he says "blue, he missed the bag", while he tags him would that make it unmistakeable for you? If F3 tags the guy off the base, and BR has not made an attempt toward 2B, why do you think he is doing it? Unmistakeable is perhaps more definitive for you. I'm good to go with the immediate tag.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

tcarilli,

So, if an R1 takes off on the pitch, and the batter hits a fly ball to the F9, who catches it and throws to the F3, who tags the base prior to the R1 retouching, I assume you would rule "SAFE!" ??? (BTW, neither the F3 nor the F9 said anything.)

JM

Not the same. Everyone in the park knows it's an appeal on the fly ball - it meets the An appeal should be clearly intended as an appeal, either by a verbal request by the player or an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire.

However, merely tagging a runner who has legally overrun first base is NOT an unmistakable act.

[UmpJM]

Rich,

Whether an "unmistakeable appeal" or not, I believe it is most certainly an out. I offer the following from J/R in support:

J/R, Chapter 9 - Appeals; Subsection C: Missed Base Appeals:

2. A missed base appeal of first (overrun) or home occurs when [7.08k]

a. action is relaxed and the alledgedly missed base or the suspect runner is tagged [7.10d], or

b. action is unrelaxed and the suspect runner is tagged off base.

So, as I said before, if the BR who missed 1B is tagged while off his base, he is out. Got anything that says different?

JM

[LMan]

There is no reason for a fielder to tag a runner returning to 1B after running through the bag, unless he feinted to 2B. If the fielder deliberately tags him as he returns to 1B, I have an out. No way Im passing up the out here by saying in effect, "I thought you were just kidding, I didnt know that was an appeal."

[kylejt]

First, the call is safe.

It's most definitely an appeal play, and it better be very clear why you're tagging him. A "he missed the base, TAG HIM!" from anyone on, or off the field would suffice for intent. But there got to be an unmistakable appeal on this play. Otherwise he might be tagging him because he:

a. turned to the left
b. went to the left of the foul line.
c. the first baseman just aways does this.
d. it's Tuesday.
e. etc.

[UmpJM]

kylejt,

As described, J/R says he's out. You seem to suggest otherwise. You got anything that says different?

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

kylejt,

I disagree. In this play, the first baseman tried a swipe tag and missed the runner. He then immediately chased the runner down and applied a tag after passing the base. This to me is pretty darn unmistakable that F3 is appealing the missed base. I've got an out.

Rule 8-2-(1 thru 5) NOTE: When a play by its very nature is imminent and is obvious to the offense, defense and umpire(s), no verbal appeal is necessary, e.g. runer attempting to retouch a base that was missed, or a failure to tag up and a throw has been made to that base or plate while a play is in progress.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Remember, it's summer coaches league (FED) ball we're talking here.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

We did this dance a few months ago and although I hated the mechanic cited, I realize why they want it called that way. In OBR (yes, I know this was Fed), according to the J/R and Evans manuals, they want you to signal safe and wait for the proper appeal to be made. A few members even wrote that it is not an unmistakable appeal, since it is a continuation of the normal playing action. I guess it comes down to whether the first baseman immediately realized that the player missed the base or was informed by another or the bench.

In Fed, I call the out since the onus is on the player for completing the required playing action in order to be considered safe. He did not, is lazy, stupid or unlucky and OUT!

[chicago11]

I think some of the confusion here is that everyone is interpreting the situation differently. I am not 100% certain of how this play went down. Initially I pictured the fielder bobbling it, swiping and missing a tag and then applying a tag just as the B/R passed first base. Others saw F3 missing a tag, realizing the B/R and then chasing the B/R. Yeah, if the F3 chased the B/R, it would seem to be an appeal.