over rule partners call...

[LMan]

Originally Posted by umpirenj

Number 2: I think that the PU can do more then one thing at a time. I think that if the PU was at 1B extended the BU would easily see the touches as well as the pulled foot.

Dangerous thinking - NIump and LDUB are exactly correct here. You have priorities at 3B and home, and a scoring decision on a runner is always a priority. You miss those worrying about your BU's call and you are setting yourself up for a sh*tstorm.

Stick to the established mechanics.

[PeteBooth]

I think after this game I would be making a call to my assignor and kindly ask not to be partnered with this guy again.[/QUOTE]

Even though this particular umpire demonstrated terrible mechanics and gamesmenship, the FIRST thing you do is be man enough to talk to him DIRECTLY after the game is over and away from everyone. That is where you have a SOLID discussion and vent out any problem you had.

This is not kindergarten where you go crying to the principal when someone does something you do not like.

If, after your discussion with him, you receive NO results, then by all means contact the assignor and refuse to do games with him.

If you go "crying" to the assignor every time your partner does something inappropriate you get labled a back-stabber.

Case and Point my partner "hung me out to dry" this past weekend, but in the parking lot after the game he apologized and realized what he had done. Hey it happens, it's only a game.

If there is something that happens in a game that you do not like, then FIRST be man enough to tell your partner "mono on mono" then if you cannot resolve the issue call the assignor.

Pete Booth

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I think after this game I would be making a call to my assignor and kindly ask not to be partnered with this guy again.

Even though this particular umpire demonstrated terrible mechanics and gamesmenship, the FIRST thing you do is be man enough to talk to him DIRECTLY after the game is over and away from everyone. That is where you have a SOLID discussion and vent out any problem you had.

This is not kindergarten where you go crying to the principal when someone does something you do not like.

If, after your discussion with him, you receive NO results, then by all means contact the assignor and refuse to do games with him.

If you go "crying" to the assignor every time your partner does something inappropriate you get labled a back-stabber.

Case and Point my partner "hung me out to dry" this past weekend, but in the parking lot after the game he apologized and realized what he had done. Hey it happens, it's only a game.

If there is something that happens in a game that you do not like, then FIRST be man enough to tell your partner "mono on mono" then if you cannot resolve the issue call the assignor.

Pete Booth[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I just figured that that was a given that you would be talking to him after the game. Even if we worked everything out, I would still ask not to be partnered with this guy for awhile. Hanging you out to dry is one thing, I can deal with that. Intentionally booting a call cause you want to get out of there or you don't want to admit you are wrong or you want to stick it to the coach or whatever lame reason he can come up with is something I won't be a part of. Guess that is just me though.

[BEAREF]

Since I started this mess let me ask the question again....Is there a time when you feel it is acceptable to over rule your partners call? Or do you just offer your view and let him make the decision to change his call? That's just what I did and he didn't change the call even though it was not right.

Let's change the situation of the original post to no one on base. The responsiblities for the PU are significantly reduced in this scenario. Would you act or react differently in this situation if the original "blown call" was not changed?

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Since I started this mess let me ask the question again....Is there a time when you feel it is acceptable to over rule your partners call? Or do you just offer your view and let him make the decision to change his call? That's just what I did and he didn't change the call even though it was not right.

Let's change the situation of the original post to no one on base. The responsiblities for the PU are significantly reduced in this scenario. Would you act or react differently in this situation if the original "blown call" was not changed?

I feel for you. Seems like you seeing the play was a bigger atrocity than the pile of crap on the infield intentionally making the wrong call, but this is your partners call and there isn’t really anything you can do about it. If you tell him what you saw, whether you should have been looking or not, and he chooses to ignore it, then that is his choice. Your choice can then be to go home and tell your assignor that you don’t want to work with this guy ever again. It is obvious one of two things happened. Either your partner is an *** and doesn’t want to admit he got a call wrong, or he just didn’t want to take a chance on the game going to extra innings. Either way it reflects poorly on you and your association.

Then again, your assignor could be like these guys and say what the hell are you doing watching that play at first for anyway instead of having to deal with an obviously incompetent umpire.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Since I started this mess let me ask the question again....Is there a time when you feel it is acceptable to over rule your partners call? Or do you just offer your view and let him make the decision to change his call? That's just what I did and he didn't change the call even though it was not right.

Let's change the situation of the original post to no one on base. The responsiblities for the PU are significantly reduced in this scenario. Would you act or react differently in this situation if the original "blown call" was not changed?

No. With respect to that part of the issue, what you did was correct, and what BU did was awful. While you shouldn't have been looking at what you were looking at (and a good BU would know that you weren't looking, and probably wouldn't come to you anyway), the fact that you were let you give information when asked. You should definitely do no more than that. There are calls that belong to multiple umpires (OBS, INT primarily), but pulled foot is not one of them. You should NOT overrule anyone on this type of play. OTOH, your moron partner A) shouldn't have asked you and B) should have changed his call after he DID ask you.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

(and a good BU would know that you weren't looking, and probably wouldn't come to you anyway

A good crew with a good pregame will probably have a sign that tells their partner they have something.
Nothing worse than one ump having a correct call and the other never coming to him for fear of hanging him out as well.
If you get the sign then at least you know you have the option of going to your partner.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

While you shouldn't have been looking at what you were looking at (and a good BU would know that you weren't looking, and probably wouldn't come to you anyway), the fact that you were let you give information when asked.

While I agree that a good BU should have made the correct call himself, without having to ask for help, I disagree in that I feel the PU should have been watching for the touches of 3rd and home, as well as the pulled foot/swipe tag at 1st. All it takes is to glance at touches, it doesn't require a stare-down with the runners.

When there is a 1st to 3rd situation with R1 and R3, for example, I move up the line toward third, glance back to see R3's touch of home, and continue on my way to cover R1 coming into 3rd. I don't need to stay home and wait for R3's touch. I am able to perform several tasks at once.

I think the same thing applies here. The PU can see R2 touch 3rd, R3 touch home, and still follow the ball to its destination.

This is what the Official Rules Of Baseball says in its charge to umpires:

"Keep your eye everlastingly on the ball while it is in play. It is more vital to know just where a fly ball fell, or a thrown ball finished up, than whether or not a runner missed a base."

It goes on to say:

"If you are sure you got the play correctly, do not be stampeded by players' appeals to "ask the other man." If not sure, ask one of your associates. Do not carry this to extremes, be alert and get your own plays. But remember! The first requisite is to get decisions correctly. If in doubt don't hesitsate to consult your associate. Umpire dignity is important but never important as "being right.""

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

This is what the Official Rules Of Baseball says in its charge to umpires:

"Keep your eye everlastingly on the ball while it is in play. It is more vital to know just where a fly ball fell, or a thrown ball finished up, than whether or not a runner missed a base."

It goes on to say:

".... But remember! The first requisite is to get decisions correctly. "

It's amazing how good ol' common sense can get you thru most baseball situations.
Some of you should try it.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Since I started this mess let me ask the question again....Is there a time when you feel it is acceptable to over rule your partners call? Or do you just offer your view and let him make the decision to change his call? That's just what I did and he didn't change the call even though it was not right.

Let's change the situation of the original post to no one on base. The responsiblities for the PU are significantly reduced in this scenario. Would you act or react differently in this situation if the original "blown call" was not changed?

Never. If he asks I tell him what I saw and it's his decision to change or not. But if I tell him I saw something different than he called and he don't get it right we will have that post game discussion I mentioned earlier because I don't understand why he asked for help and then did not use the information.

[Thom Coste]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

The situation is base loaded with two outs in the bottom of the 7th. The home team is behind 3-2. A routine ground ball to the shortstop but the throw to first was high causing the first baseman to jump. When he landed his foot was a good 8-10 inches to the 2nd base side of the bag ... My partner called "out".

I'm going to ask you Bear, did R2 touch third base? And did R2 run home and touch the plate?

[BEAREF]

Originally Posted by Thom Coste

I'm going to ask you Bear, did R2 touch third base? And did R2 run home and touch the plate?

My position at the time was 1st base line extended. The runner on third did cross & touch home plate. The runner on second stopped on third when the out call was made.

I appreciate all the comments and have learned many things from them. Thanks.