Another classy move by the AMLU

[dontcallmeblue]

Let's think about this some more.

Rookie ball 60, not 40 games.
Short season, including extended spring training, aprox 120-130 games.
A ball, probably 2 years. Including spring training and playoffs, aprox 160 games a year.
AA for 2 years, same, 160 games.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by dontcallmeblue

Let's think about this some more.

Rookie ball 60, not 40 games.
Short season, including extended spring training, aprox 120-130 games.
A ball, probably 2 years. Including spring training and playoffs, aprox 160 games a year.
AA for 2 years, same, 160 games.

Wouldn't you think the best of the best, the Top Guns of umpires would be able to manage a game better? Especially after over 800 tries.

I expected this from replacements, after all they were the third choice and mere amateurs.

Maybe this is an indictment on the schools not the AMLU.

Seriously, Maybe the school of hard knocks and experience is actually a better training ground than Evans.

[SCUMP]

im not defending the umpire here but the player did pop off from his position according to the article. as for the other two ejections if he issued warnings and felt they were throwing at the batter he did what he was supposed to do. in a situation like that i feel you had to be there in that moment and actually working the game. we don't know what had transpired throughout the game.

and being a replacement i read all the things some managers that were mad said about the the umpiring at that time.

so i say they are "RATS" CHESSE EATING RATS....tell him to shut the **ck up and play.

naturally the manager would call his player a class act even though the rat is out on the field running his mouth.

bottom line if he kept his mouth shut he wouldn't have been dumped....

[socalblue1]

I would guess that we will see more than the usual number of ejections the next couple of weeks. Why? The fill-in's accepted MUCH more BS from the teams than a regular MiLB umpire ever would (I have been hammered more than once over the years by partners and supervisors when working as a fill-in for this).

Not necessarily a criticism of the fill-in's, as they managed the games in their own way. The chirping & whining the fill-in's let slide are a no-no most of the time at the pro level. It's going to take a bit of time for everyone to realize the sheriff is back.

As to potential throwing at batters - MiLB want's a very hard line here (Investment protection). The potential outcome is a few more managers & F1's get dumped each year than is really necessary to control the game.

[SCUMP]

I Got Dumped By The Sheriff......

But Not By The Deputy.......

He Got Dumped By The Sheriff.....

But The Rat Swears It Was In Self Defense.........

[Clint Lawson]

Originally Posted by SCUMP

im not defending the umpire here but the player did pop off from his position according to the article. as for the other two ejections if he issued warnings and felt they were throwing at the batter he did what he was supposed to do. in a situation like that i feel you had to be there in that moment and actually working the game. we don't know what had transpired throughout the game.

and being a replacement i read all the things some managers that were mad said about the the umpiring at that time.

so i say they are "RATS" CHESSE EATING RATS....tell him to shut the **ck up and play.

naturally the manager would call his player a class act even though the rat is out on the field running his mouth.

bottom line if he kept his mouth shut he wouldn't have been dumped....

That is the best post you have made yet on this board David.

[lawump]

Replacements would never let non-routine situations get out of control. They would never be perceived as handling a non-routine situation so poorly that a team manager would pull his entire team from the field and refuse to continue the game.

AMLU has been in existence since around 2000 or 2001. So we have had 5 or 6 years of games being umpired by AMLU members and not once did any manager perceive an AMLU umpire (or crew) as handling a non-routine situation so poorly that they felt compelled to pull their entire team off the field and refuse to play.

Replacements worked, what, two months or so?...far, far less number of games than the number of games AMLU umpires have worked in the history of MiLB...and yet, they managed to have that exact situation occur.

H'mmm, I'm sure those replacements' experience had nothing to do with that incident, of course.

Of course, I'm sure the pro-replacement posters' response to this will be that the manager who pulled his team was "wrong" and an "idiot" and "it wasn't those (replacement) umpire's fault."

Yet, in the same breath they'll say that the story involving the AMLU "AAA" umpire ejecting the third baseman, pitcher and manager was the "umpires fault" because he was "inexperienced" and he doesn't know how to manage "men".

And let's make one thing clear: I'm not blinded by loyalty to the AMLU. In all my posts on this topic this spring I have (1) used the word "scab" sparingly, preferring to use "replacement" and never calling any poster a "Scab" (2) never criticized or attacked any poster on this board (or umpire.org) for working as a replacement, and (3) I have even criticized the AMLU for some tactics and/or statments they've used/made.

However, we are now entering the land of the delusional when posters start thinking that any amateur (or the replacements) is/are as good as the AAA umpires. (Yes, even current amateur (college) guys who are former AAA umpires are not as good. Simply put when you work a lower level (and NCAA Division 1 is lower than AAA...let's not even go there) one's umpiring skills do not remain at the same level they were at while in AAA, period.)

Some say top amateurs are better than long-season "A" umpires...I disagree, but I can see their point of view. Some say top amateurs are better than "AA" umpires...I totally disagree, but yet the other side can still make a rational argument in support of their position. But implying that top amateurs (and replacements) are better than "AAA" umpires can be supported only by a delusion.

[gsf23]

Lawump,

I really don’t think that anyone here is actually blaming the umpire in this situation. The amateurs were questioned because of their experience, only fair to some that this guy has his questioned as well. Personally, I think if the guy is working AAA ball he probably has enough experience of he wouldn’t be there.

The point I was making was that if this story was exactly the same, the only difference being “replacement umpire” instead of “pro umpire”, there would have been all kinds of guys on here saying, “there you go, another example of an inexperienced amateur not able to handle the pressure of pro ball. A REAL ump would have never let it get so far that he had to eject three people. He was probably telling that scab to bear down because he had become so frustrated with the horrible officiating that is ruining his chances to get called up”.

And please don’t tell me that it wouldn’t have happened. Christ, after the Young bat throwing incident there were guys here saying that would have never happened with a pro ump behind the plate and the “scab” got exactly what he deserved.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by gsf23

Lawump,

I really don’t think that anyone here is actually blaming the umpire in this situation. The amateurs were questioned because of their experience, only fair to some that this guy has his questioned as well. Personally, I think if the guy is working AAA ball he probably has enough experience of he wouldn’t be there.

The point I was making was that if this story was exactly the same, the only difference being “replacement umpire” instead of “pro umpire”, there would have been all kinds of guys on here saying, “there you go, another example of an inexperienced amateur not able to handle the pressure of pro ball. A REAL ump would have never let it get so far that he had to eject three people. He was probably telling that scab to bear down because he had become so frustrated with the horrible officiating that is ruining his chances to get called up”.

And please don’t tell me that it wouldn’t have happened. Christ, after the Young bat throwing incident there were guys here saying that would have never happened with a pro ump behind the plate and the “scab” got exactly what he deserved.

Oh, you are right...I agree...it would have happened. No doubt. I'm just suggesting that it is hypocritical to criticize, repeatedly, pro-AMLU posters for posting stories about replacement umpires and then turn around and post one showing an AMLU member in a negative light. (And I admit this hypocrisy may be a two way street.) And while the poster who originally posted the link to the story may have posted it as a "rib" to pro-AMLU posters (a "rib" I get and was amused by), other posters ("anti-AMLU" posters) have taken it seriously.

As an aside, during the strike, while I personally did not point to one specific story and slam that particular replacement...I did state that the large majority of stories discussing replacement umpires were "negative" in their discussion of the umpires. My point at that time was NOT to slam replacements, as much as it was to suggest that such press was needed to aid AMLU's cause. (The theory being that owners/management would eventually move toward AMLU's demands if there was too much negative press. Obviously, this did not happen (for a number of reasons) and WWTB's prediction of the result of the strike was pretty close to being on the money.)

I'm not sure I agree with your first paragraph...several posters, at least to me, seem to be seriously critcizing this umpire...

[gsf23]

Well, if they are putting the blame on the umpire I don’t think that that is right either. It wouldn’t be right if he was a replacement guy and it’s not right if he’s a pro guy. Could he have handled it differently? Probably, but once he gives that warning he has to follow through with it or it will just cause even more problems.

I’m not a pro guy, but I tend to let a lot more inside pitching and HBP go than most before giving a warning. But, I was a bit of a jerk I guess you would say when I pitched. I did peg a guy in high school once while I was warming up.

[GerryB]

I posted it as a rib.
Ejections happen; they are not always indicative of the umpire's abilities or lack thereof. The media reports, either side, are so biased and ignorant that judging how it should have happened is pointless.
For the record I was asked, and declined.