Unusual Balk Call

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

... As for throwing to a base, there's no set number in feet or anything, so thats going to be judgement by the Umpire (assuming the pitcher didn't disengage)

TussAgee11,

I wouldn't argue with what you say above either, and your assertion is quite consistent with what it says in the BRD on the subject (#385, for those following along at home):

....if the pitcher throws directly to the fielder there is no balk as long as the fielder attached to that base is in the "proximity" (umpire judgement) of the base. (6.2.4j).

However, as presented, the bozo who made the balk call in John L.'s sitch did not understand the criteria constraining his judgement, as nicely articulated in the following passage from the MLBUM:

...The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to the first baseman who is either in front of or behind first base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base. ...

Again, as presented, NOT a balk, bad call.

JM

[mcrowder]

Coach - your #2, which I was saying is wrong, was:

the F3 tagged the freakin' runner out! So, even if the F1 threw "from the rubber", he was not in violation. (Strike 2!)

This is simply not a true statement and is misleading to anyone who doesn't know the rules. The fact that he was close enough to the runner to tag him is entirely 100% irrelevant.

If, however, you'd have said that "6 feet from the base is, in my judgement, not far enough away from the base to be considered a throw by the pitcher 'not to a base'", then I would probably agree with you.

[UmpJM]

mcrowder,

I believe we are in "violent agreement" on the essential question.

JM

[SAump]

There is NO must throw to the base ruling. You made this up. The fielder must have a chance at making a play. The pitcher cannot throw to the fielder out of position to make a play for it is only viewed as a delay of game tactic. The pitcher can throw to any fielder at any location who has an immediate play on the baserunner. Over and OUT.

edited twice to replace "You" with "The pitcher".

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by SAump

There is NO must throw to the base ruling. You made this up. The fielder must have a chance at making a play. You cannot throw to the fielder out of position to make a play for it is only viewed as a delay of game tactic. You can throw to any fielder at any loction who has an immediate play on the baserunner. Over and OUT.

WRONG!

OBR rules - From the rubber, F1 MUST throw directly to 1B, period. Other bases F1 can throw to the base or a fielder.

FED & NCAA - F1 can throw to F3 if he can make the play.

[DG]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

WRONG!

OBR rules - From the rubber, F1 MUST throw directly to 1B, period. Other bases F1 can throw to the base or a fielder.

F1 can throw to F3 if F3 is moving towards 1b to make a play. If F1 catches F3 flatfooted, even 6 feet from the base it's a balk. If he is moving toward 1B, catches the ball and then tags the runner, it's an out.

[ggk]

can we please have some consensus?? Tim??

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SAump

There is NO must throw to the base ruling. You made this up. The fielder must have a chance at making a play. You cannot throw to the fielder out of position to make a play for it is only viewed as a delay of game tactic. You can throw to any fielder at any loction who has an immediate play on the baserunner. Over and OUT.

8.02 (c) Intentionally delay the game by throwing the ball to players other then the catcher, when the batter is in position, except in an attempt to retire a runner.
PENALTY: If, after warning by the umpire, such delaying action is repeated, the pitcher shall be removed from the game.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SAump

8.02 (c) Intentionally delay the game by throwing the ball to players other then the catcher, when the batter is in position, except in an attempt to retire a runner.
PENALTY: If, after warning by the umpire, such delaying action is repeated, the pitcher shall be removed from the game.

A pitcher may throw to any fielder, including outfielders, in a legitimate attempt to retire any runner.

8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --
8.05 (h) The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;
Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base.

[wsttxump]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Coach - your #2, which I was saying is wrong, was:


This is simply not a true statement and is misleading to anyone who doesn't know the rules. The fact that he was close enough to the runner to tag him is entirely 100% irrelevant.

If, however, you'd have said that "6 feet from the base is, in my judgement, not far enough away from the base to be considered a throw by the pitcher 'not to a base'", then I would probably agree with you.

I believe it is 100% relivant. FED and NCAA book says this is a legal play as long as the fielder is attempting to make a play. I would say a tag is a pretty good indication that there was a play made.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by wsttxump

I believe it is 100% relivant. FED and NCAA book says this is a legal play as long as the fielder is attempting to make a play. I would say a tag is a pretty good indication that there was a play made.

Fair enough, WestTex - sometimes my brain gets stuck in OBR mode.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

TussAgee11,

I wouldn't argue with what you say above either, and your assertion is quite consistent with what it says in the BRD on the subject (#385, for those following along at home):



However, as presented, the bozo who made the balk call in John L.'s sitch did not understand the criteria constraining his judgement, as nicely articulated in the following passage from the MLBUM:



Again, as presented, NOT a balk, bad call.

JM

Total agreement Coach. I was just kind of outlining the rule to be able to be fitted to any circumstance. Obviously if he disengages, it is impossible to balk. If he doesn't its umpires judgement if he threw in the vacinity of the base. Kind of a "I'd have to see it" deal.