Sooooooo....today was the first day...

[SCUMP]

Hey Arnold That Was Real Intelligent Saying Indy Ball Is Not Professional Ball.

I Guess Guys Like, Ricky Henderson, Jose Canseco, Mitch Williams, Lance Johnson, Jack Armstrong, Jamie Navarro Aren't Professional Players Either????? That Is Just A Fraction Of The Former Big League Players That Have Played That (non Pro Ball). You Showed Us All Just What A Dumb A$$ You Really Are With That Statement.

As For Me Being Bitter About Not Getting A Job In (real Pro Ball) Here's A News Flash. I Was 38 Years Old When I Attended The Evans Academy And Did Not Try To Get A Job, So Your Bitter Pill Just Doesnt Hold Much Merit.

I Never Said Or Mislead Anyone As To What Level Of Baseball I Worked. I Did Work Four Years Of Minor League Baseball And Wether You Think The Northern League And The Atlantic League Is Professional Baseball Or Not Heres Another News Flash. It Is Minor League Baseball, They Are Paid To Play (isnt That What Decides Your Status As An Amature Or A Professional).

So Arnold The Pig Go Back To Your Slop, And Hey If You Are A (minor League Umpire) Try Not To Spend All That Money Your Making (that Extra 30 Bucks A Month) In One Place.

Would You Like "swiss Or Chedder" To Go With Your Whine Arnold??

[SCUMP]

Arnold I Will Give You The Benifit Of Doubt Here,

Maybe You Got Confused When You Said Indy Ball Isnt Professional Baseball.

Now "the Over Thirty Womens Slow Pitch League You Work"

That "is Not" Pro Ball.

[BenedictArnold]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I will say that independent leagues are a form of professional baseball for all the reasons WWTB stated. They are payed to play. But if I worked it I would say I worked in a professional independent league. To say professional baseball is misleading without giving the league. My definition of professional is affiliated baseball with MLB.

However, with that being said, it is definitely not minor league baseball. At least an argument can be made about the professional statement, but minor league? Ok, then these players are going to climb the ranks to the major independent league? What teams are these independent leagues affiliaited with? And the players don't make the league. They may have former players like Ricky Henderson, but they are not brought in to develop them, they are there to be a side show to the fans.

You can call me what you want, I could give a s*it. But my hostility for people like SCUMP is because I put in my time and made it to AAA. I have given my umpiring resume. I know what it is like to be evaluated in the minor leagues. When I was in AA we shared rooms. When I was in A ball we made peanuts. Every thing the professional umpires receive today is something that the next group has tomorrow. That is why MiLB loves people like SCUMP. You can keep the games going with the players being ordered not to argue, and you truly believe you belong. As I said before, just remember that when people ask you about scabbing remind them that you were not the first choice (AMLU was) nor their second (People like me were) I am being generous when I say you were their third. But at the risk of being consistent, when you now tell people that you worked AAA or AA or whatever league you scabbed...make sure you mention the "scab" part. Otherwise you are just being misleading again.

The AMLU may have made mistakes, but they still made them out in the open. They tried to do something that was arguably impossible. And now they have to deal with a scab that not only thinks he knows what it is like to be a minor league umpire, but also plays monday morning quarterback on a complex labor situation.

OK SCUMP...I will give you the benefit of the doubt. It must have been really tough to walk away from those independent leagues after four years because the money wasn't good. You had to pass up on your dreams...I guess the dream would be that when many MLB players retire they come to your league and draw a bigger crowd. Must have been a difficult decision to make...

[SCUMP]

Arnie Once Again You Dazzle Us With Your Brillance.

Players, Some Former Big League And Minor League Players Choose To Play Indy Ball Because It Doesn't Limit Them To Who They Sign With If Approached By A Minor Or Major League Club.

It Is A League That Gives Players A Chance To Continue Playing And In A Lot Of Cases Is Their Avenue Back To The Bigs.

Some Of The So Called Side Show Guys....

Chris Wider Played Indy Ball Last Year And Was Called Up To The White Sox, The Were World Champs Last Year.

Jered Weaver Played Indy Ball This Year.....called Up To Anahiem Angels....big League Debut This Year....arnie

Joe Winkelas Called Up To The Brewers This Year From Indy Ball.

Jose Canseco Played Indy Ball Then Went To The White Sox And Hit 19 More Home Runs That Year......side Show Huh.

These Are Only A Few Arnie....

Learn Your Facts Before You Pop Off There Bitter Boy.......

By The Way Why Would Two Current Minor League Umpires....john Brammer For One The Other One Slips My Mind Lower Themselves To Work In The Atlantic League During The Strike????

Jim Evans Also Is A Consultant To The Atlantic League (sideshow) Non Professional Ball....

Mark Facto (former Minor League Ump) Is The Umpire Supervisor....

Why Dont You Give Mark A Call There Arnie And See If He Thinks The Atlantic League Is A Side Show And Really Isn't Minor League (pro Ball)....

Dumb A$$

[SCUMP]

Hey Arnie When You Were In A Ball Making Peanuts, Did You Put The Peanuts In The Beer You Obviously Were Crying In....

[SCUMP]

Want To Know More About The Side Show Atlantic League?

Go On Line To.. The Atlantic League Of Professional Baseball.....

Red All About Side Show Baseball At His Finest......

[BlueLawyer]

Dude-

Many of us get it. Here’s the deal: you are arguing with a guy who thinks that independent baseball is equivalent to the minors, and apparently, therefore, guys who umpire independent ball are “as good as” AMLU guys. There are other points I could make, but in the spirit of civility, I won’t.

I’m suggesting that you have won the argument.

I’m suggesting that keeping this thread going is counterproductive.

Strikes and outs!

[DIV2ump]

Did Andy Roberts really quit after negotiating this contract?

[SCUMP]

I Have Never Said Or Implied I Was Better Than Any Umpire At Any Level.

I Would Ask Though When The Amlu Went On Stike Did Milb Crawl Back To The Union And Ask Them To Save Their Season??? No

When The Replacement Umpires Went To Work, The Amlu Thought They Would Fail Miserably And It Just Didn't Happen.

It Must Hurt To Find Out Just Being A Member Of The Amlu And A Minor League Umpire Doesn't Make You Gods Gift To The Game....

I Am Still Waiting On An Answer As To Why John Brammer And One Other Umpire Would Stoop So Low As To Work In The Indy Atlantic League While They Were On Strike?

Why Would Jim Evans Get Involved With The League.

Why Would Mark Facto (former Minor League Ump) Be The Supervisor Of Side Show Ball?

Why Would So Many Former Big League Players And Minor League Players Play There And How Could So Many Of Them Make It Back To The Show Playing Side Show Ball?

[SCUMP]

Bob Price Is The Other Minor League Umpire That Worked.....

Brent Rice....former Minor League Ump And Instructor At One Of The Pro Schools Currently Working Side Show Ball.

Matt Beaver Former Minor League Ump Working Side Show Ball.

Jaun Gonzaleaz Just Signed With The Side Show...

J D Drew Started With The Side Show.....

[SAump]

A local high school kid signed a MLB contract with a huge bonus.
He continued to play local summer ball until reporting to rookie ball in the fall.
If I call his summer games, then I am a PRO UMP.

A local MABL players goes to Phoenix and wins a national home run contest.
Several of his teammates have A, AA and even AAA experience.
If I call their games during the summer, then I am a PRO UMP.

Better yet, I call the entire season for a local wood bat league made up of local college players.
If I call their games, then I am now a qualified NCAA UMP.

No, I am still a local JV ump who doesn't mind taking meaningless summer games while the REAL PRO and NCAA umps do whatever they do. As much as others think I tend to elevate my status on this board, I still believe I keep a good perspective for the game.

A dream is ..., but a dream. SDS, care to share your vitals again?
I dare to bet some of these guys can't even carry your mask to the plate.

[SCUMP]

These Players And Umpires Are Right There Along Side The Bearded Lady At The Plate Meeting.......

Step Right Up.....see Jaun Gonzalez Hit A Home Run While The Freak With No Arms Or Legs Rolls A Cig Up With Just His Mouth.

See The Incredible Bearded Lady Shave Will John Bramer Calls Balls And Strikes.....

Its A Real Carnival Atmosphere Here In Side Show Baseball Land!!!!

Peanuts Get Your Peanuts Here.....bob Price Yells Out From Behind First Base As He Calls The Last Runner Out On A Wacker.

Yee Haa It's Side Show Baseball Coming To A Town Near You....

[Sal Giaco]

For what it's worth, this is how I distinguish between the two:

The AMLU are Professional Umpires that work Affiliated Minor League Professional Baseball. They are guys that are considered "in the game". They are Professional Umpires because that is their career.

SCump, myself, etc are amateur umpires that work Independent (Minor League) Professional Baseball. We are NOT considered as being "in the game" and we work these leagues mainly as an advocation (hobby) rather than a career.

I think there's a difference between working pro ball and being a Professional Umpire. We are amateur umpires that work professional baseball - the AMLU are Professional Umpires that work Minor League baseball.

This goes back to why I said people need to be careful how they list their experience. As an unwritten courtesy to MiLB umpires, I never reference my summer work as Minor League baseball - I simply term it as Independent Pro Ball.

[BenedictArnold]

Looks like I struck a nerve here...whats the matter SCUMP? To answer your questions, those AMLU guys probably worked the indy leagues to stay sharp. But I guess you are wondering why they left the indy leagues when the strike was over. According to your argument, it should be another way to the Majors. Get a clue. Weaver was a bonus baby that played there until he signed a contract. I'm sure his talent was hidden until he emerged into a big league player in the indy leagues. Ricky Henderson is absolutely a side show. Canseco is also a side show. What else you got? Here is a news flash...just like the professional baseball players don't consider indy players equal, they don't throw it in their face. But when one of them pops off and tries to say that they belong in AA, AAA or MLB, I promise you they put them in their place. COnsider this your umpiring education. I guess you didn't get the memo at umpire school. The school will select you for the minor league evaluation course "IF YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH." If not, then they try to place you in indy leagues to help you get better, BECOME GOOD ENOUGH, and go back to umpire school.

As for the umpires for the Atlantic league, their supervisor has one tie to minor league baseball. When someone gets selected from school and attends the eval course, they MIGHT get a phone call from the MiLB supervisors to see how his time there went. That is all. Brent Rice was a great umpire that got released way too soon. Depending on his personal situation, he should go back through. Maybe that is why he is where he is. Speaking of Brent, why don't you ask him his opinion of indy leagues. I believe Brent is an instructor down at Wendelstadt. I would guess that he recognizes the difference between the two and would not try to hide that indy leagues are not minor league baseball. A final note on Brent, I hear he is a great instructor. My friends say that he got in the game when he was very young. He was in AA by the time he was 21. That is an awesome accomplishment. Maybe he got there too soon. But he is still young enough to give it another shot if he can affors it. I wish him well. I will also venture to say that he is the best umpire the Atlantic league will ever see.

So SCUMP, it appears as though you are rattled. Keep defending your resume and try to tell people that you were a minor league umpire. You are a liar and a joke. Not that I agree with this term, but in this case SCUMP you truly are a Charlie. You think you belong somewhere you have no business being. You give amateur umpires a bad name. I have worked several clinics and attended even more. I have yet to see someone advertise that their instructors/clinicians are minor league umpires in the indy leagues. But these same clinics will send out mailings and have people come because the real minor league guys will be there and know what they are talking about.

I am exhausted talking abou this. I will take your advice Bluelawyer, I will no longer continue in this thread. SCUMP is bitter and doesn't have a clue. To put it in words he might understand...So long Charlie...

[BenedictArnold]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

For what it's worth, this is how I distinguish between the two:

The AMLU are Professional Umpires that work Affiliated Minor League Professional Baseball. They are guys that are considered "in the game". They are Professional Umpires because that is their career.

SCump, myself, etc are amateur umpires that work Independent (Minor League) Professional Baseball. We are NOT considered as being "in the game" and we work these leagues mainly as an advocation (hobby) rather than a career.

I think there's a difference between working pro ball and being a Professional Umpire. We are amateur umpires that work professional baseball - the AMLU are Professional Umpires that work Minor League baseball.

This goes back to why I said people need to be careful how they list their experience. As an unwritten courtesy to MiLB umpires, I never reference my summer work as Minor League baseball - I simply term it as Independent Pro Ball.

No offense Sal, but saying that you are associated with a person like SCUMP is not a good thing. Your posts seem to be a position of reason where his are bitter and uninformed. My comments to him are in no way directed at umpires like yourself. You, my friend, give those same amateur umpires a good name.

Now I am officially done on this thread.