Sooooooo....today was the first day...

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by SCUMP

j rutledge....i did work.....i am a former minor league umpire.....evans trained

4 years minor league experience.......retired......for family reasons........

so i am practicing just what i preach.......

if you dont like the pay, or the people that pay you, it is easy......find

another job!!!!!!!!

Guys,
I know SCUmp because I went to school with him. Just like myself, we did not get jobs. Just like myself, we moved on and raised our families and worked Independent Professional baseball (not affiliated Minor League Baseball) for the last 5+ years as an advocation/hobby (not a vocation). The only difference is that SCump worked indy ball full time in the summers where I just worked it locally (5 - 7 series per summer)

Despite the image he portrays on this board, SCUmp is a good guy. With all due respect, I think he needs to becareful how he presents his experiences. Independent League umpires and Affiliated Minor League umpires both work professional baseball, however, the mentality, goals and "dreams" are quite different.

I'll leave it at that because I just don't want to get in the middle of all this "mud slingging".

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Sal Giaco

Guys,
I know SCUmp because I went to school with him. Just like myself, we did not get jobs.

Hmmmm, maybe I was right in my last post after all...

[SCUMP]

Sal As Always A Beacon Of Light In An Other Wise Dark Night....

A Good Guy That Deserved A Job.

[SAump]

Young, dumb and full of IT
JIGgy on one side and SCUMp on the other.
"YOU went to pro school. YOU went to pro school."
I am not impressed at all w/ the quality of either PROduck.

[SCUMP]

let's see.... saump the last time i checked i wasn't trying to impress you.

let me check again.....no still not trying!!!!!!

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

Mr B.
I'm not saying that they got neither a fair nor unfair contract. I'm saying that SCABs crossing their picket lines undermined their ability to pressure PBUC and MiLB to consider consessions.
65% of the membership ratified the contract, so the entire membership ended the strike. Fine. I just wonder how much they may have received had the amature ranks across the nation supported them?

I will try to remain above the fray and answer your question. Of course the replacements undermined the AMLU game plan. So what? The didn't make a tactical decision, the were simply instruments to an end. The AMLU took a chance on a contract and then gambled on a strike when they couldn't improve their position. The only leverage they had was that they were too talented to be replaced. This bluff failed miserably. MiLB and PBUC knew that they could find umpires capable of working these games and they did.

In every battle (war, strike, marital conflict) there are always going to be things that effect the outcome. Some are out of your control and others, tactical blunders. If no one had come out to work those games, MiLB would have had to scrub the season, but honestly, that was never an option. Garbage, teacher and rapid transit strikes have been broken because of replacement workers. The MLB umpires went out on strike and they were successfully replaced. When you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it. The AMLU never stood a chance with this one.

You ask a final question about support. Not every amateur umpire crossed their picket line and worked. Yet, I read story after story that had AMLU spokesmen saying that amateur umpires are worthless. Their website was filled with tales of amateur woe. By the way, this was prior to the strike.

For what it's worth, were you ever offered a contract by PBUC?

[ctblu40]

WWTB-
To answer your question, no I've never been offered a contract by PBUC. I've never been to one of the schools (I would like to go just to learn though). I've never considered trying to make umpiring a career. It's certainly not a feesable line of work for someone with a family, travel more than pay playing a part in that.
I was offered to be a replacement by my college assignor, but declined for various reasons. First was the fact that my younger brother is (was, he resigned with the ratification of the curren contract) a professional umpire, second is that I have friends that are professional umpires, and lastly, because I am a member of organized labor and believe in supporting other organizatios.

I'm an associate member of the AMLU, and visit their website daily, and I have never seen these stories of amature woes that are posted. Maybe you could send me a link to one of these. The postings of amature woes that I've seen all occured while amatures were filling in as replacements. They were also mostly (95%) newspaper articles posted by the mother of one of the striking umpires.

Now for the "good job" that amatures were doing as replacements. I work with at least 7 of the replacements in my area doing NCAA and below and I can tell you that although they are good umpires, they are nowhere near the quality of every professional I've ever seen. Keep in mind that prior to the start of the season, MLB sent a memo to all of the farm directors and staff members in MiLB and specifically requested that they be "patient with and respectful of" the replacements. If the amatures were expected to do just fine, then why the need for such a memo?

I'm not posting here to bash the job the replacements did, I probably couldn't do much better. My real beef is that many upper echelon amatures think as if they are just as good as the professionals. This is simply not true. Every umpire, amature and professional, at any level needs to realize that there is always room for improvement. What caught my attention here was the initial sarcastic tone in the first posting in this thread. It seems as though this individual is hoping for the failure of others to validate his own abilities. To me this is a sign of some sort of inferiority complex.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

WWTB -To answer your question, no I've never been offered a contract by PBUC. I've never been to one of the schools (I would like to go just to learn though). I've never considered trying to make umpiring a career. It's certainly not a feesable line of work for someone with a family, travel more than pay playing a part in that.

Yes, most of us realize that if you want to make a decent living, one should not think of MiLB as the answer. That is why I cringe when I see posts from AMLU supporters that demand a living wage for a man and his family.

I was offered to be a replacement by my college assignor, but declined for various reasons. First was the fact that my younger brother is (was, he resigned with the ratification of the curren contract) a professional umpire, second is that I have friends that are professional umpires, and lastly, because I am a member of organized labor and believe in supporting other organizatios.

You made a noble decision based on your values. However, we know that what you belive is just and worthy may not be what I find appealing. (think Al Qaeda, Jihad, KKK or Black Panthers)

Many of us were offered jobs as replacement umpires. I turned down several requests and was then offered a position of evaluator. I was honored but again decided against it. realizing that I am past my prime and that many others deserved a chance to challenge themselves were the only factors in my decision.

The fact that you are part of organized labor is not a surprise to anyone who has read your comments. Most of us supported the actual umpires on the field, but hated the actions of the AMLU brass. The membership was sold a bill of goods and some of us saw through the charade long ago. While we understand that they deserve more, we also recognize that every employee believes this. We all think we are more valuable to the system than we really are. The MiLB umpires discovered this the hard way.

I'm an associate member of the AMLU, and visit their website daily, and I have never seen these stories of amature woes that are posted. Maybe you could send me a link to one of these. The postings of amature woes that I've seen all occured while amatures were filling in as replacements. They were also mostly (95%) newspaper articles posted by the mother of one of the striking umpires.

This is what made me want to respond in the first place. Come on...take off the rose colored glasses and read the site again. The tales of the Barons forfeit, a spoiled bat flinger, the 'Scab' photo section with commentary and countless press releases are there - if you really want to see them. Prior to the strike, there were surveys and a couple stories about how they found the idea of using 'high school' umpires preposterous. Numerous references to 'high school and college' umpires not being trained properly and that even the best of those couldn't replace a Rookie ball umpire were there for all of us to see. Many of us dismissed the newspaper articles for what they were...spin from an out of control union. Andy and Brian were repeatedly quoted, so you can't claim that an overprotective Mom was the evil genius. During the strike, the claims and spin became outrageous. I too have full access to that site. I read many things that would sicken the average amateur umpire.

Now for the "good job" that amatures were doing as replacements. I work with at least 7 of the replacements in my area doing NCAA and below and I can tell you that although they are good umpires, they are nowhere near the quality of every professional I've ever seen. Keep in mind that prior to the start of the season, MLB sent a memo to all of the farm directors and staff members in MiLB and specifically requested that they be "patient with and respectful of" the replacements. If the amatures were expected to do just fine, then why the need for such a memo?

Who said that they were equal to the AMLU guys? They were equal to the task, that is all that is, was and will be important. Umpires make mistakes and I have yet to see a perfect game called. These are 'professional' ball players in name only. They make ridiculous mistakes and many don't know the rules. The umpires are also expected to use this time to train and become better.

The memo you mention was sent to defuse the potential uproar over the strike. MLB has a similar gag order in effect for the players and coaches - if they get out of line and question/mock the umpires, the league jumps in and fines them. The MiLB memo was a preventative measure for any hotheads who might find the strike a convenient way to make a name for themselves. It also kept the employees in line - does your company allow you to publicly ridicule other employees? The umpires are the arbiters of the game - questioing their judgement is not tolerable in the professional ranks. Mr. Young displayed his tolerance with AMLU and amateur umpires.

I'm not posting here to bash the job the replacements did, I probably couldn't do much better. My real beef is that many upper echelon amatures think as if they are just as good as the professionals. This is simply not true. Every umpire, amature and professional, at any level needs to realize that there is always room for improvement. What caught my attention here was the initial sarcastic tone in the first posting in this thread. It seems as though this individual is hoping for the failure of others to validate his own abilities. To me this is a sign of some sort of inferiority complex.

I will not speak for the original posting member. I can say that I can still umpire rings around most A level umpires. I am older and slower, but my eye is better trained than theirs. The best NCAA umpires can hold their own in the AAA. Watch the CWS and you'll find that the reaction time to a metal bat is much faster than that of the wood bat game. Too many people assume that once a player has made it to AAA he is ready for the show. Is that why so many wash out or realize that they have spent six years there and will never get the chance. How many umpires make it to AAA and never get the call? Yes, the game is demanding and more challenging than what most amateurs will ever see. Having been there, I know it is far easier for me to call a pro game than an amateur game. The pitches are better, the fielding remarkable and the consistency beyond anything most us ever see. The truth of all this is that the AMLU umpires think they are irreplaceable. The world has seen that this is not the case. Like I said, MLB replaced their umpires before, why didn't the AMLU realize the folly of their gamble? If an amateur can step onto Fenway, Busch, Wrigley or Arlington's turf and do the job, it shouldn't be a surprise that it could happen in San Jose, Lynchburg, Racine and Springfield.

Amateurs have improved through dedication, training, fitness and clinics. Like you wrote, you would like to attend a pro school but have no intention of making it a career. Many amateurs do the same thing. They pride themselves on the thankless job they do - day in and day out. Some work for a hot dog and cola others make great game fees. They still know that when it comes time to make the call, they can and will do it.

Respect the fact that many of us saw another side to the union. Some of us are part of organized labor and others disdain it. We simply love the game and don't like to see it taken hostage. The AMLU tried to steal that from all of us and some of us stepped in to prevent it from happening.

[SCUMP]

ctblu40....you got that tone from an umpire that recieved the very same tone from the amlu once they chose not to work.

not only did the amlu want the replacement umpires to fail in order to validate their worth to milb and to make their position stronger, they harrassed by phone and email, went to yards around the country to call them names, they even put their pictures on the internet. so hey lets call the kettle black can we??? looks like the inferiority complex lies in the amlu's bed.

your beef with the "upper echelon" about wether they are as good or not is silly. they are all human beings capable of error and from the top to the bottom they will from time to time make mistakes. i would ask who is the best big league umpire? who is the worst?

one thing is certain. milb did not think that the replacements were bad enough to warrant crawling back to your union and saying please come back. amlu took milb's deal so don't flater yourself please.

the amlu guys that voted to go back to work saw the truth. settle or be gone... so wether you think the replacement guys could do the job or not the people that put the product on the yard and the people in the seats "did not" miss a beat while you were gone!!!

[BlueLawyer]

I thought the strike was over about 10 days ago and the AMLU umpires went back to work yesterday.

If I'm right on the facts (and Lord knows I can get the facts wrong, ask any coach), I'm wondering where all this hostility against AMLU guys is coming from.

They were traitors to the game when they struck. Then they wussed out and settled for a half-deal. Now they are not nearly as good as the replacements . . . especially if I was one of the replacements.

You know, the hostility aimed at AMLU, if this board is any indication, is equal or greater to that AMLU aimed at scabs.

They are back on the field. Rehashing the "I'm just as good, I was noble and they were selfish, they are greedy" talking points for the 4,000th time gets us where at this point?

Dudes. Really. Move on.

Strikes and outs!

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Thanks for the memo...

Topics get repeated here all of the time. Those of us who have been around a few years have witnessed just about everything being recycled.

While it may seem tedious to some, new faces pop up all of the time. Some do Google searches and link here. I don't like the idea that a newbie can read that the AMLU was wronged in all things baseball. They set themselves up for disaster from the beginning. The strike cost them much more than a couple months pay.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by SCUMP

Nicky Boy I See What The Unions Have Done Throughout This Country, In Most Cases Priced Themselves Right Out Of Work....

I Am Not Nor Will I Ever Be A Member Of Any Labor Union.

There Is Something Very Wrong When The Workers Of A Factory Or The Employees Of A Company Can Tell The Owners Of The Company What They Have To Do!!!!!

If You Don't Like The Way The "owners" Run Things Well Hit The Road.....

For the most part, I agree with you about unions. They are pricing themselves, and their workers right out of business. The Health-care industry is a perfect example.

I am not a union member either. I was once, and was totally disgusted with it.

I have spent many years on the management side, dealing with unions. I have successfully broken union representation, by treating workers the way they deserve to be treated, compensated them with a fair salary, and offered benefits fitting the market. The funny thing is, if you treat workers fairly, and with respect, they don't concentrate on the numbers as much. Unions don't get that. They just want to raise salaries, so that their percentage from the worker's paycheck goes up.

In some companies, unions are still a necessity, because of the unfair (mid-evil) way employees are treated. Yes, the worker's could just say 'see ya', but what if it is a necessary service company ? Say, the only hospital in a 100 mile radius ? If that facility shuts down because nobody will work there, the community loses. Better to vote the union in, and keep the place running. If a company doesn't want a union (running) their company, all they have to do is run it right, and the unions will never be able to get in.

I say these things from first hand experience, on both sides of the coin.

[SCUMP]

Hey Lawyer!!!! Did you work as a replacement????

If not how would you know what kind of hostility was aimed at those of us who did????

[BenedictArnold]

Originally Posted by SCUMP

Hey Lawyer!!!! Did you work as a replacement????

If not how would you know what kind of hostility was aimed at those of us who did????

I am so tired of this. But at least it makes sense. I do know what kind of hostility you carry. You are no different than any other student at umpire school that wanted a job, didn't get one, and felt as though you got screwed. Well guess what, you weren't good enough then and you aren't now. What a shock that you would scab...it all makes sense now. You are nothing but a bitter a**hole at those MiLB instructors for not sending you. Looks like they got this one right...you are pathetic SCUMP. At least those instructors announce their name publicly and tell you that you aren't good enough. You can't even do the same. Keep hiding in the shadows and throw those stones at the AMLU house. You are a joke!

BTW...independent ball is something to be proud of, but it is not professional baseball. Don't fool yourself and tell the truth when you tell people what levels you have worked. Actually, you are only trying to convince yourself that you are good enough. Job well done...you can rest assured that in your own mind you are still the best. Now go back and read your umpire school evaluation again and come back to reality.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by BenedictArnold

I am so tired of this. But at least it makes sense. I do know what kind of hostility you carry. You are no different than any other student at umpire school that wanted a job, didn't get one, and felt as though you got screwed. Well guess what, you weren't good enough then and you aren't now. What a shock that you would scab...it all makes sense now. You are nothing but a bitter a**hole at those MiLB instructors for not sending you. Looks like they got this one right...you are pathetic SCUMP. At least those instructors announce their name publicly and tell you that you aren't good enough. You can't even do the same. Keep hiding in the shadows and throw those stones at the AMLU house. You are a joke!

BTW...independent ball is something to be proud of, but it is not professional baseball. Don't fool yourself and tell the truth when you tell people what levels you have worked. Actually, you are only trying to convince yourself that you are good enough. Job well done...you can rest assured that in your own mind you are still the best. Now go back and read your umpire school evaluation again and come back to reality.

One last comment before my eyelids rule the night.

While it is true that SCUMP has some hostile feelings towards the striking umpires, it is your reply that sounds the most bitter and antagonistic. I suggest decaf.

I was one of the fortunate few that paid my money, sweated and worked, listened and performed well enough to be encouraged to take the shot. I subjected myself to the MiLB grind and count those memories among my best and worst. I am very well versed at the role we played and the lifestyle. I believe that I am more than qualified to comment of the AMLU and the issues MiLB umpires face. All along, I have empathized with the individual umpire and taken shots at the brass. Those that haven't walked in my shoes can certainly read and hear what is being said. They can also form an opinion on an internet discussion board.

You said that independent Minor League baseball is not professional baseball. Why is that? Are you saying because they aren't formally affiliated with Major League baseball they don't count? Hmmm - methinks that you sound like someone on a pedestal, not a soapbox. Many current and former MLB players herald from the independent leagues across the US, Mexico and Canada. The umpiring is pretty solid and I enjoyed more than a few easons with some great clubs. As far as I recall, the pay was good, the players received contracts and remuneration. The parks were nice, usually pretty well filled and the local radio stations carried the games. What exactly is your definition of professional baseball?