Strike zone

[buckweat]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Higher level pitchers can throw darts at the knee

Rich,

I know this is a tad off subject, but when you say Higher level pitchers can throw darts at the knee, what are you really saying?

I’m not saying the higher level the P, that they aren’t more accurate!

I’ve been down this road with many an ump, player and coach from the LL(generic) to the ML, and even with a couple guy’s in the HOF, and the ability of P’s, even HOF P’s to actually hit spots has never been in doubt.

But what’s very much open to conjecture is, what a “spot” is, and what percentage of the time it can actually be hit.

So far, the only people I’ve found who believe hitting a “spot” is actually hitting the glove without it moving, and really believe it happens a high percentage of times, are very young and inexperienced.

More experienced people seem to consider “spots” as being approximately the size of a C’s mitt, or roughly a circle 15” in diameter.

I thought it was ridiculously huge until it was explained to me that a C’s mitt is about 15” across. If a ball hit dead center of the mitt, it would be perfect, but if the C had to move the mitt just 7-8” to get the ball, that’s still pretty darn good. So, 7-8” left/right/up/down would mean the pocket is pretty close to the outside edge of the original glove position, and that would make the circle roughly 15” across.

Accepting that as a “spot”, most of the more experienced people I’ve talked to seem to think a really accurate P like a Maddux, will still only be able to hit his “spot” at best maybe 70% of the time on a good day, which would make a pretty darn good college P maybe 50% accurate.

Is that what you consider “throwing darts”, are you finding something higher or lower as a good number, or is your meaning of “dart” something else entirely?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by buckweat

Rich,

I know this is a tad off subject, but when you say Higher level pitchers can throw darts at the knee, what are you really saying?

I’m not saying the higher level the P, that they aren’t more accurate!

I’ve been down this road with many an ump, player and coach from the LL(generic) to the ML, and even with a couple guy’s in the HOF, and the ability of P’s, even HOF P’s to actually hit spots has never been in doubt.

But what’s very much open to conjecture is, what a “spot” is, and what percentage of the time it can actually be hit.

So far, the only people I’ve found who believe hitting a “spot” is actually hitting the glove without it moving, and really believe it happens a high percentage of times, are very young and inexperienced.

More experienced people seem to consider “spots” as being approximately the size of a C’s mitt, or roughly a circle 15” in diameter.

I thought it was ridiculously huge until it was explained to me that a C’s mitt is about 15” across. If a ball hit dead center of the mitt, it would be perfect, but if the C had to move the mitt just 7-8” to get the ball, that’s still pretty darn good. So, 7-8” left/right/up/down would mean the pocket is pretty close to the outside edge of the original glove position, and that would make the circle roughly 15” across.

Accepting that as a “spot”, most of the more experienced people I’ve talked to seem to think a really accurate P like a Maddux, will still only be able to hit his “spot” at best maybe 70% of the time on a good day, which would make a pretty darn good college P maybe 50% accurate.

Is that what you consider “throwing darts”, are you finding something higher or lower as a good number, or is your meaning of “dart” something else entirely?

It's not what I meant. What I meant, really, was that pitchers throw pitches that start near the knee and finish near the knee and getting that pitch right is crucial.

[buckweat]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

It's not what I meant. What I meant, really, was that pitchers throw pitches that start near the knee and finish near the knee and getting that pitch right is crucial.

OOPS! Sorry. ;-)

Could you explain a bit more about starting at the knee and finishing at the knee?

I'm trying to picture it but having difficulty.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by buckweat

OOPS! Sorry. ;-)

Could you explain a bit more about starting at the knee and finishing at the knee?

I'm trying to picture it but having difficulty.

That's about the best way I can explain it. It's a pitch that starts down in the zone and stays down in the zone and if you're lazy, you'll give up on it and ball it. This is a strike, unlike that pitch caught at the ankles.

[buckweat]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

That's about the best way I can explain it. It's a pitch that starts down in the zone and stays down in the zone and if you're lazy, you'll give up on it and ball it. This is a strike, unlike that pitch caught at the ankles.

Now that I can picture and understand. Thanx!

I sure hope you guys understand that I’m not just doin’ this rile anyone. I’m truly interested in finding out why things work the way they do, and its exchanges like this thread that help do that. I’ve just never been one of those guys who takes, "IT IS WHAT IT IS" for an answer, without some kind of reasonable explanation.

Along these same lines, if anyone’s ever had the dubious pleasure of being “graded” by QuesTec”, I’d sure like to know exactly what the purpose of the thing is, and what exactly it is that you see when you throw the DVD in the player.

I’d also be curious to know how it would “score” one of those pitches that seems to be bringing out such angst. I.e., a pitch that crosses the zone at the bottom and front of the plate, but hits the dirt in front of the C.

[DG]

Originally Posted by buckweat

Rich,

I know this is a tad off subject, but when you say Higher level pitchers can throw darts at the knee, what are you really saying?

I’m not saying the higher level the P, that they aren’t more accurate!

I’ve been down this road with many an ump, player and coach from the LL(generic) to the ML, and even with a couple guy’s in the HOF, and the ability of P’s, even HOF P’s to actually hit spots has never been in doubt.

But what’s very much open to conjecture is, what a “spot” is, and what percentage of the time it can actually be hit.

The "spot" is what gets the batter out. If a higher level pitcher throws a fastball 3 inches outside on an 0-2 count it's because he meant to, not because he missed, so call it a ball. If he then throws one on the edge of the black outside, it's because he meant to, knowing that you will not call it 3 inches outside, so call it a strike.

The spot is a welled placed pitch, under a given situation.

[buckweat]

Originally Posted by DG

The "spot" is what gets the batter out. If a higher level pitcher throws a fastball 3 inches outside on an 0-2 count it's because he meant to, not because he missed, so call it a ball. If he then throws one on the edge of the black outside, it's because he meant to, knowing that you will not call it 3 inches outside, so call it a strike.

The spot is a welled placed pitch, under a given situation.

I surely won’t argue, but your opinion about how accurately a P can throw a ball is vastly different than what I’ve seen or been told. No biggie.

Can I assume that where the C is seeing up is having an effect on your call? FI, if the C set up inside on that 2nd pitch it’d be a ball.

[DG]

Originally Posted by buckweat

I surely won’t argue, but your opinion about how accurately a P can throw a ball is vastly different than what I’ve seen or been told. No biggie.

Can I assume that where the C is seeing up is having an effect on your call? FI, if the C set up inside on that 2nd pitch it’d be a ball.

If the pitcher can't hit the spot then there is no spot. And hell yes, how the catcher catches it is a factor. If he is set up inside and the pitch is on the black outside, it's a ball. The spot is where you and the catcher expect it to be, and when it ain't, well it ain't.

I called a 2-0 game yesterday with 2 pitcher's who went the distance for their team. Both were hitting the spots, the game lasted 1:40 and I heard no complaints from anyone about balls and strikes, because when they hit the spot and I called a strike and when they didn't it was because they were trying to get the batter to swing at one that was not on the spot. Sometimes they swing at a pitch off the spot, and sometimes they don't. I only called one K looking and he walked off before I made the call, because he knew...