Strike zone

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Curve balls that catch the front knee and then bounce short of the catcher cannot, in reality, be called strikes. It is not even an "unwritten rule" it is simple fact.

,

First, how many pitchers have good enough stuff to actually catch the strike zone and then break to the dirt in front of the catcher?
Second, if he did have that good of stuff why wouldn't you call it?

it's got nothing to do with the quality of the catcher everything to do with the quality of the pitch.
If a pitch is in the strike zone and breaks to the ankles catcher picks it clean, it seems to me that only fear of the offensive coach prevents the strike call.

So the simple fact is, you're saying out of fear you would not call a strike on a ball you admit hit the strike zone?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by NIump50

First, how many pitchers have good enough stuff to actually catch the strike zone and then break to the dirt in front of the catcher?
Second, if he did have that good of stuff why wouldn't you call it?

it's got nothing to do with the quality of the catcher everything to do with the quality of the pitch.
If a pitch is in the strike zone and breaks to the ankles catcher picks it clean, it seems to me that only fear of the offensive coach prevents the strike call.

So the simple fact is, you're saying out of fear you would not call a strike on a ball you admit hit the strike zone?

You don't know Tee very well if you think he's afraid of anything.

Perception is everything. If everyone in the park but you thinks a pitch is low, maybe you ought to change your perception.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

You don't know Tee very well if you think he's afraid of anything.

Perception is everything. If everyone in the park but you thinks a pitch is low, maybe you ought to change your perception.

Nothing to do with perception. He said a ball that catches the knee(i'm assuming over the plate) and then breaks to the dirt cannot be called a strike.
Are you suggesting we poll the audience before we make our calls?
I thought the ol umpire slogan was 'I call em the way I see em'

If everyone in the park thinks the hands are part of the bat, do I make my call based on there opinion?
If everyone in the park thinks a tie goes to the runner, do I make my call accordingly?
If everyone in the park thinks a foul tip is a foul ball should I rule foul ball?
I think you get my point.
Why should a pitch judged by you to have crossed the strike zone and picked cleanly by the catcher be called anything but a strike?
All things being equal, if you see a strike and call a ball you're a coward.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by NIump50

Nothing to do with perception. He said a ball that catches the knee(i'm assuming over the plate) and then breaks to the dirt cannot be called a strike.
Are you suggesting we poll the audience before we make our calls?
I thought the ol umpire slogan was 'I call em the way I see em'

If everyone in the park thinks the hands are part of the bat, do I make my call based on there opinion?
If everyone in the park thinks a tie goes to the runner, do I make my call accordingly?
If everyone in the park thinks a foul tip is a foul ball should I rule foul ball?
I think you get my point.
Why should a pitch judged by you to have crossed the strike zone and picked cleanly by the catcher be called anything but a strike?
All things being equal, if you see a strike and call a ball you're a coward.

OK, when you start working games that are NOT on the small diamond, come back and tell us how your "philosophy" is working for you.

BTW, if a curve ball doesn't finish and the catcher doesn't stick the pitch, I don't see a strike and neither does anyone else. Well, except you.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

OK, when you start working games that are NOT on the small diamond, come back and tell us how your "philosophy" is working for you..

My philosophy is really off the wall and unbelievable, hold onto your mask, I can't believe i'm even sharing this, well I realize i deserve the criticism of the elite of this forum, well geez I well here goes the philosphy of a lowly 7 and 8 yr old ump that can't even ump 80' ball. This is really hard here goes:
When i see a strike I call it phewww I did it. They say the first step in recovery is admitting your problem. Maybe if I stay on this formum for a couple years and learn from your most excellent advice I can get an assignment at the LL minors. Maybe if I go to the coaches and promise not to be contraversial, maybe then I could get to a bigger diamond.

I hope my confession helps younger umps that dream of doing 10 yr old travel. Please learn from my misguided and terrible philosophy.


I guess you prove that if you kiss enough behind you can work any level.
Lesson to all you young umps. Forget integrity, just be a brown noser.

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

BTW, if a curve ball doesn't finish and the catcher doesn't stick the pitch, I don't see a strike and neither does anyone else. Well, except you.

Tim specifically said it catches the knee. He saw it. plain and simple.
now it's just a matter of having the courage of your conviction.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by NIump50

My philosophy is really off the wall and unbelievable, hold onto your mask, I can't believe i'm even sharing this, well I realize i deserve the criticism of the elite of this forum, well geez I well here goes the philosphy of a lowly 7 and 8 yr old ump that can't even ump 80' ball. This is really hard here goes:
When i see a strike I call it phewww I did it. They say the first step in recovery is admitting your problem. Maybe if I stay on this formum for a couple years and learn from your most excellent advice I can get an assignment at the LL minors. Maybe if I go to the coaches and promise not to be contraversial, maybe then I could get to a bigger diamond.

I hope my confession helps younger umps that dream of doing 10 yr old travel. Please learn from my misguided and terrible philosophy.


I guess you prove that if you kiss enough behind you can work any level.
Lesson to all you young umps. Forget integrity, just be a brown noser.



Tim specifically said it catches the knee. He saw it. plain and simple.
now it's just a matter of having the courage of your conviction.

OK, you're not only stubborn, you've graduated all the way to stupid. Hello, "Ignore Poster."

[LMan]

Originally Posted by NIump50

All things being equal, if you see a strike and call a ball you're a coward.

***yawn***

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by NIump50

Nothing to do with perception. He said a ball that catches the knee(i'm assuming over the plate) and then breaks to the dirt cannot be called a strike.
Are you suggesting we poll the audience before we make our calls?
I thought the ol umpire slogan was 'I call em the way I see em'

If everyone in the park thinks the hands are part of the bat, do I make my call based on there opinion?
If everyone in the park thinks a tie goes to the runner, do I make my call accordingly?
If everyone in the park thinks a foul tip is a foul ball should I rule foul ball?
I think you get my point.
Why should a pitch judged by you to have crossed the strike zone and picked cleanly by the catcher be called anything but a strike?
All things being equal, if you see a strike and call a ball you're a coward.

As the cliche goes, in a fight between you and the world, back the world.

The game has evolved over more than 100 years, and the fundamental truths that Tim and Rich are conveying are the universally accepted standards of practice that are known and accepted by all, with the possible exception of the parents of a 7 year old in his first year of coach-pitch.

Rich and Tee umpire BASEBALL; it appears you are umpiring NIump50-ball.

The people you are calling "lemmings" and "cowards" are, in fact, people who respect the game. You clearly believe you are bigger than the game. You need a mentor.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by Dave Hensley

As the cliche goes, in a fight between you and the world, back the world.

The game has evolved over more than 100 years, and the fundamental truths that Tim and Rich are conveying are the universally accepted standards of practice that are known and accepted by all, with the possible exception of the parents of a 7 year old in his first year of coach-pitch.

Rich and Tee umpire BASEBALL; it appears you are umpiring NIump50-ball.

The people you are calling "lemmings" and "cowards" are, in fact, people who respect the game. You clearly believe you are bigger than the game. You need a mentor.

When was the last time you saw a 7 year old with stuff that starts at the knee and ends up near the ankles?
It's not 7 year old stuff we're talking about.

I call a strike on a pitch I clearly see pass thru the strike zone and I'm disrespecting the game? Somethings wrong with this picture.
If it was a universally accepted and fundamental truth, why is it not written down? Why, in the past 100 years has some one not thought about putting this in the rules. "If a curve ball passes thru the strike zone, but has great movement and drops to the ankles, such pitch shall not be declared a strike"
Usually fundamental truths get written down. When something becomes universally accepted it gets adopted in the rules.
Please give me the rational behind a ball passing thru the zone being called a ball.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by NIump50

When was the last time you saw a 7 year old with stuff that starts at the knee and ends up near the ankles?
It's not 7 year old stuff we're talking about.

I call a strike on a pitch I clearly see pass thru the strike zone and I'm disrespecting the game? Somethings wrong with this picture.
If it was a universally accepted and fundamental truth, why is it not written down? Why, in the past 100 years has some one not thought about putting this in the rules. "If a curve ball passes thru the strike zone, but has great movement and drops to the ankles, such pitch shall not be declared a strike"
Usually fundamental truths get written down. When something becomes universally accepted it gets adopted in the rules.
Please give me the rational behind a ball passing thru the zone being called a ball.

Because it's not the way "anyone" wants the game called. It's part of the "art" of calling strikes, not part of the "science" of calling strikes. The "science" part can be written, the "art" part can't.

It's similar to the "high strike" in MLB. For years, no one called it, and "no one" wanted it called. Umpires were graded down if they did call it.

But, times change, and now they want it called, and umpires are graded on it, and it is called.

So, too, may the time come when a curve that catches the knee and ends up at the ankle be called a strike. And, since change doesn't happen in all areas and for all umpires at the same time, the change may already be happening in your area. For most of us, though, any such change is not here.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"art" of calling strikes

Bob, how about "The Art of Calling Pitches". It's part of a series of booklets that have been publish and sell quite well (one guess as to who wrote them).

Now, let me say this;

60' Diamond or 90' Diamond with 13 YRO - See a Strike, Call a Strike.

90' Diamond with 14 YRO and up - See a Strike that looks like a Ball, Call a Ball.

This is what is expected of an umpire, even if that is not what an umpire expects to do. It's not really our choice, it's how the game is played.

If you don't like this philosophy, that's OK, just stay at the 13 YRO level and down, and you will do well, and be well. The game needs great umpires at all levels.