Hitting a ball the has already hit the ground...

[dsimp8]

Picher pitches the ball. It bounces 3 feet in front of Home plate. The batter swings and hits the ball into the field of play to 2B. BR is thrown out at first. What's the rule on this?

[PanamaCityBrian]

Well if I am not mistaken the scorer would score it 4-3 out, I could be wrong, but I would rule it as I would any other ground ball.

[BigUmp56]

The batter is out.


Official Notes - Case Book - Comments: If the pitch touches the ground and bounces through the strike zone, it is a "ball." If such a pitch touches the batter, he shall be awarded first base. If the batter swings at such a pitch after two strikes, the ball cannot be caught, for the purposes of Rule 6.05(c) and 6.09(b). If the batter hits such a pitch, the ensuing action shall be the same as if he hit the ball in flight.



Tim.

[shickenbottom]

Let me see, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Pitched ball hits the ground, and the batter hits it, defense fields the ball and throws him out at first. Well it's not an illegal pitch (pitcher did nothing wrong prior to delivery), it's not a foul ball (the ball landed in fair territory), it's not an illegally batted ball (batter wasn't out of the box when he hit it), catcher did not interfere with the batter on his swing, rules do not specifically state that a pitched ball that hits the ground is dead or anything. I think you've got a live ball, and an out at 1st, presuming the fielder caught and controlled the ball when he stepped on 1st base.

[mcrowder]

Here's an interesting situation:

Batter hits a ball that goes to F4, who throws to F3. F3 touches the base while in possession of the ball, before BR reaches first. What do you call?

Hmm... come to think of it, maybe it's not so interesting.

[NIump50]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that maybe ds is a 15 yr old kid doing his first little league game, maybe a volunteer at the local park or maybe a rookie ump that hasn't got into the rules quite enough? Either way, I thought this forum was here to help.
Everyone except Bigump was sarcastic and condescending.
Are you guys all so insecure you have to verbally beat the new guy to make yourselves feel worthwhile?
You're certainly not creating an enviorment to encourage people to ask for help.
Personally I enjoy verbal sparring and sarcasm as much as anybody, but there certainly is a time and a place and as good umps I would think you would know better. But then again, time served isn't always a determining factor in quality is it?

[blueump]

I think we've all been to a field to watch a kid ump his first LL game. Experience and study is where we've all learned how to call the games we do.

I still remember hanging up the blues for a year or two and putting on the "rat" costume for my son's LL team. It was great, but I still shutter when I think of the kids calling the games, with no baseball knowlege except what they've seen on TV or heard from other "experienced rats" who want a call to go their own way. I still remember my own son getting hit by a pitch that bounced in the dirt first. He went down in a heap, but was not awarded first base because the ball had hit the dirt first.

This place, along with the field experience we all have received over the years, is the only place some people have to learn. Lets not turn this into a BBQ umpire roast like other places have become. Nit picking about spelling errors or insulting poeple because of their lack of knowlege is best left on other boards. Lets leave this a place of learning and instruction without the toasting please.

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by NIump50

Has it ever occurred to anyone that maybe ds is a 15 yr old kid doing his first little league game, maybe a volunteer at the local park or maybe a rookie ump that hasn't got into the rules quite enough? Either way, I thought this forum was here to help.
Everyone except Bigump was sarcastic and condescending.
Are you guys all so insecure you have to verbally beat the new guy to make yourselves feel worthwhile?
You're certainly not creating an enviorment to encourage people to ask for help.
Personally I enjoy verbal sparring and sarcasm as much as anybody, but there certainly is a time and a place and as good umps I would think you would know better. But then again, time served isn't always a determining factor in quality is it?

Don't be too hasty in your judgement NI. DS has posted 77 times and you have posted 88 times. In my book, you're no longer a rookie once you pass 20 to 25 posts.

The general process for someone is to lurk in the shadows for a few months prior to making a post so that they get a feel for the surroundings. You know that some guys are going to be sarcastic and take a quick shot when they can. I recognize that I'm no spring chicken either, and anyone can take a shot at me any time. It's part of the learning process.

[RPatrino]

I had a coach tell me that a pitched ball was dead the minute it hit the ground, right after a batter hit one of his pitcher's bounced offerings for a single.

I told the coach, 'ok Coach, next time one of your player's scores from third on a passed ball, I'll send him back".

He got a look on his face like he just ate a lemon. He said, "nevermind" and walked back to the bench.

And guy's, sometimes a little "roasting" in this environment IS constructive. What we do is about poise and pride, and that is sometimes challenged here and more importantly challenged in real life.

Bob P.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by shickenbottom

Don't be too hasty in your judgement NI. DS has posted 77 times and you have posted 88 times. In my book, you're no longer a rookie once you pass 20 to 25 posts.

The general process for someone is to lurk in the shadows for a few months prior to making a post so that they get a feel for the surroundings. You know that some guys are going to be sarcastic and take a quick shot when they can. I recognize that I'm no spring chicken either, and anyone can take a shot at me any time. It's part of the learning process.

I'm more than happy to take a shot when I post an opinion or after I've delivered my own shot. However, if I or anyone else simply asks for help on a rules question, I don't think proper decorum calls for condescending responses.
Now if I respond to Ds and in the process of explaining a rule I say something like "Bigump got a mail order physics degree" then I expect to take a shot or two from him and the rest of the mail order degree recipients.
And I also think most of us know the difference between condescension and just having fun.

[BigUmp56]

You're giving me way too much credit. My "physics" degree came from watching endless hours of Star Trek while playing DD on Mr. Natural. You'd be surprised how many mysteries of the universe have been solved this way.!



Tim.

[LakeErieUmp]

Is it because the ground's part of the bat?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by shickenbottom

Don't be too hasty in your judgement NI. DS has posted 77 times and you have posted 88 times. In my book, you're no longer a rookie once you pass 20 to 25 posts.

What if the first 76 posts were soccer questions?

[mcrowder]

I think it's fair to give a bit of a hard time to someone who posts a question that is not only easy to find the answer to in the book, but is specifically called out as a specific example.

Too many are too lazy to look anything up. They want an easy answer. Trust me, if this is truly an umpire and he doesn't have the answer to THIS question, he needs FAR more training before being let loose on the field. There are difficult topics that take a while to digest - questions on those get a free pass. But THIS one is one of a number of truly basic ideas that need to be grasped as second nature before you even buy your first hat.

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by waltjp

What if the first 76 posts were soccer questions?

What has soccer questions have to do with a baseball forum? I realize that this website caters to many different officials, however, I would like to think that the designers would have thought about that element when they designed the board.

If not, oh well. Life is like a beach, it's nice to lay out in the sun, play in the sand and surf, watch all the scantily clad ladies go by, but eventually you're gonna get burned, or you'll need a towell to soak up your drool.