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Tue May 23, 2006, 07:08pm
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go union
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1. It's not okay for guys to take work that AMLU umpires are refusing to do. They're "scabs." 2. It is okay for AMLU umpires to take work from umpires who usually do that work despite previously assuring everyone that this would not happen. (Does this make it okay for someone to post their pictures with childish comments?) Heard something interesting, some AMLU insiders can maybe confirm it- supposedly AMLU leadership tried to convince Triple-A guys not to work as fill-ins at MLB to put pressure on MLB to get involved in the strike. The Triple-A guys told them to go chase themselves. |
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Tue May 23, 2006, 08:18pm
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This isn't a secret or a surprise. Those Trips have much to lose this season. We all know that five to eight WUA members are moving on and it's time for the rest to scramble. This strike hurt the Trips an awful lot.
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"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz |
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Tue May 23, 2006, 09:32pm
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Those AAA umpires working in the big leagues should be ashamed of themselves. Those guys haven't sacrificed a single thing for the AMLU. They worked the World Baseball Classic and spring training. Now they work in the big leagues. I don't care what anyone says, they should not be working those games while the other members of the union are sitting at home. I often do not make predictions, but I am willing to guess that if those guys refuse to work this thing will get resolved in a day or two. MLB will not sit back and let their umpires work 3 man or work with amateurs. If they did...here comes the players union screaming. And we all know what happens when the players union gets involved...MLB cracks. Lets hope something gets done with MiLB and AMLU without having to do this. But if they are still at home next week, they need to do this and those AAA guys working in the big leagues need to stop being selfish and sacrifice something. After all, this strike probably helped more of them than hurt them.
And again Sal, how does every man for themself help amateur umpires? The AMLU issued a statement...but I think it is obvious that that doesn't mean everyone signed off on that statement. Some of these guys have no ability to do anything else because they don't know how to do anything else. I think amateurs should still not work as replacements because there are fewer spots in pro ball every day than there are in every other kind of baseball in America on a daily basis. It is in everyones best interest to get those AMLU guys back to work. Then everyone can go back to working on their own goals and their own advancement. Like I said before, we need to stop pointing fingers at eachother. Everyone sit back and take notice that baseball doesn't care about the AMLU guys or the amateur guys. They care about one entity, and one entity only...themselves. They are licking their chops at the thought of the common folk fighting with eachother. In fact, they are banking on it. And if only a few AMLU guys are working those playoff games, call them out individually. One thing is for sure, if they all agreed to work playoff games there would be a lot more of them working. So give most of those guys a little credit Sal. Most of them have stayed true to their word. Just as you remain true to yours. I personally can't wait to see this thing get settled because I know a few guys very well and I care about them and their families. They are suffering in this more than anyone. More than someone who didn't recieve a playoff game and more than someone that has crossed a line. They are the ones that have to try to make ends meet any way possible because baseball doesn't care that a gallon of milk and a tank of gas costs more today than in 2000. Seriously, lets try to look at both sides before casting stones. It sucks for every umpire out there right now. I would venture to say that even the replacements have a greater appreciation for the life style after working these games. A couple guys I know that are making $100/game are now talking to eachother saying that they are underpaid for what they are doing. See what I mean? Baseball is laughing at every umpire in america right now. They know that guys like me and you are going to do what is best for us. The only problem is that some guys think that it is best to work as replacements and others think it is best to decline and hope this thing gets settled sooner rather than later. Again, my apologies for the long post. I just can't seem to keep these things down to a couple paragraphs. BA Last edited by BenedictArnold; Wed May 24, 2006 at 02:23am. |
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Tue May 23, 2006, 10:14pm
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Somewhere, someplace, sometime someone psoted that Balkin' Bob Davidson, although an AAA umpire working up, is not, and has never been, a member of the AMLU.
Could this be true? Is MiLB an "open shop?" Do umpires have the choice to not belong to the bargaining unit? How about the other AAA guys working vacation relief in the Majors. Are they members of the AMLU? If not, how can the AMLU demand they not work? And, what can the union MLB umpire be thinking about welcoming non-union Davidson back? The MLB umpires have repeatedly given their support to the AMLU. They can't be happy with Bob. Is it possible that most of the support for the AMLU position is coming from MiLB umpires who know they have no chance of moving up to the Majors?
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GB |
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Tue May 23, 2006, 11:59pm
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You make some good points. I'm just a little pissed off right now and I needed a place to vent. What bothers me the most is all I ever wanted to do is work ONE series at the AAA level to see what it was like and if I could handle it. Yet every pro or ex-pro I talked to said whether you work one game or 100 games, a scab is a scab and don't do it if you really want to support us (AMLU). So I struggled with it for about a week before declining the opportunity(s). Now I'm looking back and saying I probably missed the chance of a life time. Oh well.... atleast I can look at the "man in the glass" and go to sleep at nite knowing I did the right thing. |
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Wed May 24, 2006, 12:34am
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And again Sal, how does every man for themself help amateur umpires?
I'm not Sal, but I'll ask you this...how does it hurt? Some amateur umpires are challenging themselves by accepting those replacement assignments. That is a good thing, as their skills will have to become finer. In most cases, amateur baseball is 'every man for himself'. The AMLU issued a statement...but I think it is obvious that that doesn't mean everyone signed off on that statement. Oh, come on... I received a half dozen pleas from individual AMLU members and was sent copies from friends of others. While I have long said that the union doesn't speak for everyone, many of them have the opportunity to dissent and not act like lemmings. This membership was almost completely on the same page in January and February. When the last minutes offers failed, a few started to sweat. Now, many others are seeing a sinking ship and trying to save some face. Some of these guys have no ability to do anything else because they don't know how to do anything else. What? These guys are typically under thirty and have had just a few years of professional ball under their belts. How can you possibly say that they can't do anything else. What do they do when they are released or choose to end the dream? Pack groceries, push a lawn mower, paint a wall, go to school and get a degree and act like an adult. I think amateurs should still not work as replacements because there are fewer spots in pro ball every day than there are in every other kind of baseball in America on a daily basis. This is not about amateurs assisting in the attainment of the dream. This is about guys abandoning that dream because they want more respect and money. Those games will still be played and the best available amateurs are seeing that they are handled to the best of their abilities. No one ever promised those pro school graduates a shot at the brass ring. It is in everyones best interest to get those AMLU guys back to work. No it is not...it is in the best interest of Andy and his brass to get them back out there. The replacements are losing nothing by filling in. The AMLU gang is taking the plums from the amateurs who are not working in their stead. Then everyone can go back to working on their own goals and their own advancement. That would be nice, but MiLB doesn't see it that way. They haven't brought a new offer to the table yet and the teams are getting ready to send their All Stars to the mid season showcase. Like I said before, we need to stop pointing fingers at eachother. Everyone sit back and take notice that baseball doesn't care about the AMLU guys or the amateur guys. Kindly separate the two...MiLB seems to be taking care of the replacements pretty well. They don't have any influence on local assoaciation management, so the comparison is futile. They care about one entity, and one entity only...themselves. They are licking their chops at the thought of the common folk fighting with each other. In fact, they are banking on it. That sounds like good business practice. Worry about the things you can control and forget about those you can't. The bottom line is the profit line and that is what all good business people know. Signing a contract for low wages is a poor business decision if your goal is to live comfortably. And if only a few AMLU guys are working those playoff games, call them out individually. One thing is for sure, if they all agreed to work playoff games there would be a lot more of them working. So give most of those guys a little credit Sal. Again, not every amateur is working as a replacement. If you insist on subjecting an entire group to ridicule and threats (yes, we recall those being tossed our way in March), then you have to accept that the same brush will be used to paint the AMLU gang. Most of them have stayed true to their word. Just as you remain true to yours. I personally can't wait to see this thing get settled because I know a few guys very well and I care about them and their families. They are suffering in this more than anyone. More than someone who didn't recieve a playoff game and more than someone that has crossed a line. They are the ones that have to try to make ends meet any way possible because baseball doesn't care that a gallon of milk and a tank of gas costs more today than in 2000. Please read what you wrote; no one forced those guys to sign a contract and no one forced them to go on strike. If they can't make ends meet, they can always ask to be released from their membership in the union and go another way. Further, a guy works his tail off all Spring - fifty games in the cold and rain - now it is time for him to get his due and an AMLU guy strolls in and takes the plum. You say that it is unimportant, but to many amateur umpires, those playoffs are their brass rings. Seriously, lets try to look at both sides before casting stones. It sucks for every umpire out there right now. I would venture to say that even the replacements have a greater appreciation for the life style after working these games. A couple guys I know that are making $100/game are now talking to each other saying that they are underpaid for what they are doing. I know of a couple that said that they work harder on a D1 game. A student of mine emailed me that he can't believe that he is getting paid to do this job. He gets to see some great ball and visit some cool parks. See what I mean? Baseball is laughing at every umpire in america right now. No, they are laughing at those who went on strike and are missing a nice season and throwing away their dreams. Sal, you did what you believed was morally acceptable. If you are as talented as you say you are, then you did a disservice to every ball player, skipper and fan that may have enjoyed watching you work. I did not work games as a replacement either. But I know that if I gave my best effort to those people, I would have no problem sleeping at night. The game is bigger than any one participant.
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"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz Last edited by WhatWuzThatBlue; Wed May 24, 2006 at 12:38am. |
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Wed May 24, 2006, 02:01am
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Folks,
I promised an update as soon as I have facts from the individuals named in this post. I have spoken to two of the five so far and as soon as the ohters respond OR Wed night I will post. As far as the AAA guys working MLB fill-in: This was a union choice made just before the WBC. It's now far too late to back out, as there is a valid agreement in place with MLB. At least one poster has made what I fell is an accurate observation - had AMLU not approved the AAA umpires doing WBC, spring training or regular season this strike would have been settled long ago. This is my opinion & the AMLU may see things differently. Last edited by socalblue1; Wed May 24, 2006 at 11:45am. |
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Wed May 24, 2006, 08:59am
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Wed May 24, 2006, 02:21am
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You can disagree with me and argue your points, but do not try to use my words against me WWTB. I cast no ill will, you are the only member that insists that he is always right. You try to say that these AMLU guys knew what they were getting into. No they didn't. This is the first negotiations to take place for this union. In this country, even the minimum wage is raised for our low class workers each year. You can never admit that someone has made a good point. You only say that they are getting what they deserved because they went on strike. As a member of an umpire union, you do not quit the union when the going gets tough. You stand beside each other and take the good with the bad. In the professional game, your reputation is more important than anything. Unlike the amateur field, it is not every man for themself. Sure there is competition, often very thick competition. But as you know, you live as a crew and you die as a crew. Respect and perception.
You cannot admit that a gallon of milk or gasoline was a lot cheaper in 2000 than 2006. You are an absolute joke. You should work as a replacement. You should do this because what you are doing is less noble. You sit at your computer and you feed off of those people that get upset with the AMLU. As Sal pointed out, he was upset and needed to vent. Then you sweep in like a predator to try and convince him that he should become a replacement. Where is the honor in that? Sal puts his name on his posts and I respect his opinion. I did not call him names and I tried to explain a different way to look at things. You remain negative and frankly, I don't care. In the end, Sal knows that I am trying to educate both professional umpires and amateur umpires through my own personal experience. I left baseball on my own terms. I am not bitter with baseball nor am I bitter with the AMLU. I want what is best for them and everyone else. You do not. You want to see them crumble so that you can sit and laugh and say "I told you so." In the end that may be the case and the union may fail. But the only guarantee is that you will be saying "I told you so" on this message board and you will never show your face. I remember the old days in the minor leagues. I even remember when you started off. Look at where you are now and ask yourself how you got there. It is not out of experience, it is out of hatred. I have wasted too much time already on you. I refuse to stoop to your level. I will not take the bait and I will not engage in a discussion where you are always right and everyone else is always wrong (unless of course you are a replacement looking for some reassurance). To every replacement that reads this board, is this the kind of person you want defending what you are doing? I already know that answer. WWTB, you do not need to respond to me. I already know your answers as well. I am not writing this to you, I am writing this so everyone else on this board can see what a one sided mind you are. Even though I know more than I am willing to share on this board, I nonetheless can also sleep at night. My reputation is very important to me and my dignity will never be compromised. You truly do not have a clue what you are talking about. BA |
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Wed May 24, 2006, 04:29am
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I must have missed a memo that put you in charge. I never said I was always right; it just so happens that I am correct very often. I make mistakes and I have been known to offer contrition. However, with most of this affair I have been dead on. Some of those that argued with me in October have come to understand that I know far more about what was happening than others suggested. I was lucky enough to have been asked to work at that level. Yes, I consider it fortunate to have worked for the miniscule pay check that accompanied the job. My opinions are borne of experience. I am certainly entitled to answer any point brought forth on this board. If you want to disagree with it, hone up your communication skills and debate it logically. Umpires should be used to heated arguments and others wanting to be correct.
You are incorrect to assume that I am twisting your words, but yes, I am using them against you. You have stated that the umpires did not know what they were getting into when they agreed to accept their assignments. That is rubbish...everyone at pro school knows the story and hears about the rotten life the contract brings. But to put it in terms you might understand, if a teacher takes a job at a school for $22,000 a year, he/she has little room to complain about the hours, conditions and salary that accompany an entry level position. He/she is valuable to the process and probably deserves more money, but he/she signed on the dotted line. If the local union decides to go on strike to seek raises, he/she can partake or move along. If the school board comes back and offers a pittance, he/she may feel abused but that is the system. She signed on for the job and that was the pay that was offered. She may not have been aware that salaries have not been increasing or that the system would treat her so poorly, but the Lord gave her free will. She can accept the conditions and do the job or she can try something else. No one is holding a gun to the MiLB umpire's heads. They may dream of treading the parks of the Show, but the price to pay is steep. Musicians, artists and many tradesmen dream of glory but work for peanuts while paying their dues. Our country is in the midst of social upheaval over an immigration bill. These people come to our land and take menial jobs for peanuts. They accept their lot in life and work hard for something better. Why is it so hard for some to comprehend that there are no guarantees in life? I understand that the AMLU guys are only seeking a better living wage, but the boss has consistently said "No". They threats have fallen on deaf ears and they have been replaced easier than they ever dreamed would happen. While some grumbling is going on about consistency within the replacement ranks, the same is happening in the Majors. Was Bob Davidson an example of AAA consistency that some keep harping about? I may not be correct on every issue, but I am certainly going to speak my mind when I have been intimately involved with the issue. For quite some time I have been the Devil's advocate regarding this matter. I was vilified for saying that the MiLB guys could be replaced. Others took umbrage at my insistence that the union would crack before MiLB/PBUC did. Still others ranted that I knew little about the offers on the table and that the strike would be over - "soon, very soon". So far, I have a pretty good record regarding this ordeal. You may not like what you read, but the passion is not misplaced. All along I wished that the strike would not happen, that the boys would wise up and not abandon their dreams. I did not accept assignments and chose to highlight the shameful actions of the Birmingham brass. My mind was made up when the March offer was refuted. My feelings have been justified by the Scab photos and articles. In a perfect world the members would rise up and form a new coalition. They would accept their plight and a small salary increase. These men would work hard to prove their merit and mend some fences. In the end, we would all be able to have a beer and realize our lot in life...thankless, humorless umpires. I got my butt handed to me in the market yesterday, so you'll excuse my anger and condescension. We are all in this together, but only some of us are behaving. My words are just that...words. I have crossed no picket lines or posted incriminating photos. WHile you may not agree with my thoughts, my message has been steadfast and fairly honorable. I take issue with the brass and those who denegrate the good name of amateur umpiring. It wasn't long ago that those men were in the same boat as some of the replacements. I wonder if they would have been able to temper their passions and not accept assignments prior to their making it.
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"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz Last edited by WhatWuzThatBlue; Wed May 24, 2006 at 06:23pm. |
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Wed May 24, 2006, 05:48pm
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BA, I respect your opinions as well and appreciate the experiences you share with us. You have a very unique perspective (having both professional and amatuer points of view) and I think we can all benefit from your knowledge. |
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Thu May 25, 2006, 12:09am
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You need to blame the assignors, not the umpires that accept those positions. There is nothing that says anyone cannot accept an assignment they are offered. If that was the case then every "scab" would not accept those assignments either. If an assignor does not want to hire an umpire that hardly works games during the regular season at a certain level, then they should not hire them at all. Also if someone worked all regular season and they were highly recommended, they deserve those assignments regardless of who they are.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Wed May 24, 2006, 05:42pm
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As for the players, managers and fans, I never really cared for them and I don't plan on starting anytime soon. |
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Wed May 24, 2006, 06:26pm
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The fact that many college umpires are good enough to work those leagues but you get the games mean that you are either better than some, your assignor doesn't care or you're blackmailing/blowing someone. I would think you'd be happier if we assumed the first thought.
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"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz Last edited by WhatWuzThatBlue; Wed May 24, 2006 at 06:29pm. |
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Wed May 24, 2006, 02:16am
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Way to go Sal !
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Putting your own ethics, integrity, and self respect, ahead of self desires is not an easy thing to do...But you did it. Be proud of that.
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Have Great Games ! Nick |
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