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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 12:45pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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I think people who assign umpires pick the best people. If you feel that someone "took your job" then it was not your job to begin with. Or at the very least you were not good enough to stay there. I have been working all Minor League guys all spring and they have not hurt my schedule in any way. Even if the strike had ended, I think anyone that has the opportunity to work any game can work any game. Amateur baseball for the most part has an "independent contractor" relationship. Leagues and conferences can hire who ever they want to and when they want to. It just happens that many umpires are currently in a strike.

Peace
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 12:58pm
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...

While the strike is not yet over...neither are the negotiations. There is still a federal mediator involved and both sides have admitted wanting to get a deal done soon. This thing will get resolved sooner or later eliminating issues like this one.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 08:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIGGY
This thing will get resolved sooner or later eliminating issues like this one.
Wow Jiggy, I guess you don't get it. The point is that this issue should have never come up because the AMLU said they wouldn't take amateur assignments. There are alot of D-I and ex Pro guys here in Michigan and Indiana that banded together to support them - we all got calls from League Presidents and we all refused to work. Why didn't the AMLU guys refuse the post season assignments when they got the call???????
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 08:23pm
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rhetorical, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Giaco
Wow Jiggy, I guess you don't get it. The point is that this issue should have never come up because the AMLU said they wouldn't take amateur assignments. There are alot of D-I and ex Pro guys here in Michigan and Indiana that banded together to support them - we all got calls from League Presidents and we all refused to work. Why didn't the AMLU guys refuse the post season assignments when they got the call???????

Sal, you know why they didn't refuse them-Unions always have been like this. And, they actually wonder why less and less people support them.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 01:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I think people who assign umpires pick the best people. If you feel that someone "took your job" then it was not your job to begin with. Or at the very least you were not good enough to stay there. I have been working all Minor League guys all spring and they have not hurt my schedule in any way. Even if the strike had ended, I think anyone that has the opportunity to work any game can work any game. Amateur baseball for the most part has an "independent contractor" relationship. Leagues and conferences can hire who ever they want to and when they want to. It just happens that many umpires are currently in a strike.

Peace
Is that a one way street, or does it go both ways?
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 05:47pm
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I could have sworn that he once wrote that he gets his college assignments 'simply because he is available'. That doesn't sound like the best umpire is being put on the field.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jiggy still doesn't get it. Only one side needs the negotiations to renew. MiLB has not made a new offer and has not initiated talks since the union voted against the arbiter's offer. The matter will not get settled by MiLB yielding any more and he knows it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The person who began this thread should have known better than to do what he did. Six months ago I was chastised for telling this board that the AMLU guys would begin taking the plums as soon as they saw the writing on the wall. I guess those reserves didn't last as long as they thought - or the strike went much longer than they ever imagined.

The local AMLU guys will grab those indie games and many NCAA/NJCAA post season assignments. They will suck up the American Legion tournaments and any adult baseball they deem worthy. They will argue that they are just as entitled to apply for those assignments as an amateur working as a replacement for MiLB games. The problem with that is they swore they wouldn't do it and a couple of you fell for it. Can you find that entreaty on the AMLU site any longer? Lah me!
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 07:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
: They (AMLU) asked for support and got none. Looks like they read the writing on the wall so to speak.
OK then - I guess "all bets are off" - I didn't realize it was so obvious. The door is officially open - amateurs take all the MiLB assignments you want because the AMLU is taking any assignments they want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
: Now I guess the lower level D-1 umpires that were expecting to get playoff assignments are hacked off.
For your information, I received post season assignments at both the D-II and D-I level. That's neither here nor there. The point is their are a lot of amatuer umpires that have put their time in at the NCAA level and would have gotten their shot to work post season if the AMLU guys didn't accept the assignments like they said they wouldn't... unless it was an emergency.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 10:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL
Sal,

FYI, I am on the same page with you and I apologize if you thought I was calling you a lower level D-1 umpire. I was only speaking in general. I understand exactly where you are coming from. I believe you to be one of the more stand up guys on this forum. I was only bringing up points from previous posts. As umpires we should check our egos at the door and support one another. It has nothing to do with the union issue whatsoever. We should allow these guys from MiLB the opportunity to improve their wages and working conditions. I feel like they get a raw deal from PBUC. That is my issue with the "amateurs" crossing the picket lines. Nothing more, nothing less. Congratulations and good luck in the post season. Hopefully, I will see you on TV one day at the CWS. Also, have a great year calling the Independent League.

It's going to be a long time before this wound heals.
PWL,
I guess I'm confused. I never said you called me a lower D-1 umpire and it will be a long time before I would even be considered for the CWS, if ever at all. I must have misunderstood your post because I thought you were saying that it was ok for AMLU to take "non emergency" post season assignments from amateur umpires.

I'm not upset with you (I apolgize if I offended you) but I am disappointed with the choices of certain MiLB umpires. This has been going on for a while and I have chosen to ignore it. But now, when I know that guys who have worked their a$$es off for a long time get passed over because a Professional umpire accepted an amatuer post season assignment (when clearly directed not to by his union), I get a little pissed off.

I think I've vented enough. I felt this needed to come out and be known so that perhaps, this issue can be addressed. Hopefully, somebody from the union will comment on what's going on..... but I'm not holding my breath for it.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 22, 2006, 10:42am
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Sal, you are better than that!

Sal,

If SoCal and BA are who they say they are then, they know who is working where. I understand your frustration, but there is no reason to single out 2 guys when there is at least 20. If SoCal and BA don't believe you, then fine, but they should already know which guys are working playoffs at the HS, JC, conference championship level.

Sal, if you supported the guys because you thought they were all going to support you then do what you have to do. Like every one of us, you just have to make a decision that you can live with. Like I said in our email, good luck with the rest of your season and this summer.

Left Coast, if you are going to to name people and not just give us your opinion then please give us your's so we know where the credit can go.

Last edited by Durham; Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:45am.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 22, 2006, 11:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham
Sal,

If SoCal and BA are who they say they are then, they know who is working where. I understand your frustration, but there is no reason to single out 2 guys when there is at least 20. If SoCal and BA don't believe you, then fine, but they should already know which guys are working playoffs at the HS, JC, conference championship level.

Sal, if you supported the guys because you thought they were all going to support you then do what you have to do. Like every one of us, you just have to make a decision that you can live with. Like I said in our email, good luck with the rest of your season and this summer.

Left Coast, if you are going to to name people and not just give us your opinion then please give us your's so we know where the credit can go.
I was merely answering the question that was posed.

I do have a question for the union guys out there. I have never been in a union and do not have much knowledge about them. If someone is in a carpenter's union and they go on strike, would it be OK for that carpenter to go to a non-union shop and work? I am not trying to throw any gas on any fires, I just don't know. As far as whether the AMLU guys should work or not, that is the same decision that the guys who crossed the picket lines were faced with. Everyone needs to do what they feel is right for their own individual situation.
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 06:14pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
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Quote:
Originally Posted by left coast
Is that a one way street, or does it go both ways?
It is only a two way street when both streets match. You cannot compare the Dan Ryan to the Tri-State equally.

Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble."
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 07:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I have been working all Minor League guys all spring and they have not hurt my schedule in any way.
We're not talking about regular season... We're talking about post-season - where there are plenty of qualified umpires to fill those assignments but were not given the opportunity because an AMLU guy accepted it rather than respectfully decline it to his fellow amateur "brethern". By the way, ofcourse it didn't affect your schedule because you aren't close to being considered for COLLEGE post season assignments... yet?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Leagues and conferences can hire who ever they want to and when they want to.
No sh!t - ofcourse they are going to select the best umpires possible because that's their job. I am not blaming the assignors for asking the AMLU guys for post season, I'm pissed at the MiLB guys who accepted them - knowing quite well that there are amateurs waiting/hoping to finally get a shot.

Last edited by Sal Giaco; Sun May 21, 2006 at 10:42pm.
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 08:38pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Giaco
We're not talking about regular season... We're talking about post-season - where there are plenty of qualified umpires to fill those assignments but were not given the opportunity because an AMLU guy accepted it rather than respectfully decline it to his fellow amateur "brethern". By the way, ofcourse it didn't affect your schedule because you aren't close to being considered for post season assignments... yet?
If they worked the regular season, then they should be able to work the post season like the rest of us. BTW, I worked a post season baseball game, so I was not affected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Giaco
No sh!t - ofcourse they are going to select the best umpires possible because that's their job. I am not blaming the assignors for asking the AMLU guys for post season, I'm pissed at the MiLB guys who accepted them - knowing quite well that there are amateurs waiting/hoping to finally get a shot.
Lighten up my man. You cannot have it both ways. Many here have claimed the union umpires walked out on their jobs. If that is the case then they have the right to work whatever game they want to when they are available to work. If college umpires did not respect the union's position (and many did not) then you cannot go around being mad when they are passed up for post season games. Look, I did not say it would not be a problem or not make people upset. This was the reason I said to support the union members. This strike was going to affect everyone either directly or indirectly. I just think that you cannot take the high road when so many sold out to work a pro game of any kind.

Look Sal, I feel your pain on this. I just think when you do things to undermine the union those actions would come back to bite you square in the ***. Did you actually think umpires were not going to ever work a single game? Now you might have been perfectly supportive, but there were not many that were loyal or respectful of the situation. The people you should be getting upset at are the many college umpires that decided to cross the line. We are all just umpires; we go where we are asked to go.

Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble."
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 10:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
If they worked the regular season, then they should be able to work the post season like the rest of us. BTW, I worked a post season baseball game, so I was not affected.
Wow, high school or Junior College? Those assignments are horribly difficult to get in the Chicago area. In high school, every Certified and more than a few Registered officials are working the Regionals. The Juco smorgasbord invites almost anyone with a heartbeat and is available at noon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Rutledge
Lighten up my man. You cannot have it both ways. Many here have claimed the union umpires walked out on their jobs. If that is the case then they have the right to work whatever game they want to when they are available to work. If college umpires did not respect the union's position (and many did not) then you cannot go around being mad when they are passed up for post season games. Look, I did not say it would not be a problem or not make people upset. This was the reason I said to support the union members. This strike was going to affect everyone either directly or indirectly. I just think that you cannot take the high road when so many sold out to work a pro game of any kind.
That is the most insane bit of logic you've written in a long time! The amateurs made no promises and asked nothing of the AMLU pros. A few guys have decided to accept those minor league assignments, but the vast majority have no concern for the AMLU plight. The AMLU gang sent out mass appeals to say that they WOULD NEVER CONSIDER ACCEPTING NON-PROFESSIONAL ASSIGNMENTS WHILE ON STRIKE. Most locals bought this...that was until they started accepting local high school, JUCO and NCAA assignments. You are saying that because a few guys replaced those individuals, all bets are off. That is spoken like a man that can't find reason if it falls on him. By the way, who are the ' so many' who sold out. Can you name three guys locally who have accepted those assignments? I can think of several AMLU guys who have been working HS, and College games all Spring. The AMLU guys broke their word, the amateurs did not...end of story

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Rutledge
Look Sal, I feel your pain on this. I just think when you do things to undermine the union those actions would come back to bite you square in the ***. Did you actually think umpires were not going to ever work a single game? Now you might have been perfectly supportive, but there were not many that were loyal or respectful of the situation. The people you should be getting upset at are the many college umpires that decided to cross the line. We are all just umpires; we go where we are asked to go.

Again, who is it biting? A few guys replaced those umpires, that is all. The union rolled the dice and crapped out. Now they are struggling to find respect and income.

To answer your question - yes, they posted a message stating that they would never accept a non-professional assignment while on strike. That can't be more clear. They then went and broke that promise when they realized that PBUC and MiLB didn't really miss them.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 21, 2006, 10:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
If that is the case then they have the right to work whatever game they want to when they are available to work.
OK then - now that I know how the AMLU really feels about taking amateur assignments, then we are throwing out the "support thy brethern" clause and it's every umpire for themselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
If college umpires did not respect the union's position (and many did not) then you cannot go around being mad when they are passed up for post season games.
I disagree, especially here in the midwest, where many of the more experience college umpires (D-I) did not cross. The games have been covered with high school and small college umpires at best - something the union wanted so that they would struggle on the field and perhaps strengthen the AMLU bargining position.

Bottom line Jeff, I don't think now is a time for people to start making excuses for the AMLU that it's ok for professional umpires to take amateur post season assignments PERIOD.
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