whats the rulebook say

[gulf breeze]

we are in a u 10 ussa tourny ..a batter hit the catcher during the progress of the game and scored a triple scoring two runs..no warning and he was ejected form this game .the runs were taken away and he is going to be ejected for the rest of the tourny..please help what is the ruleing.by the book...this was a accedent..help

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by gulf breeze

we are in a u 10 ussa tourny ..a batter hit the catcher during the progress of the game and scored a triple scoring two runs..no warning and he was ejected form this game .the runs were taken away and he is going to be ejected for the rest of the tourny..please help what is the ruleing.by the book...this was a accedent..help

I'd love to help. First, try reposting your question using understandable English. Tell the story in chronological order...what happened first, what happened next, what happened after that, etc.

The way it stands now, we are left trying to understand how "scoring a triple scoring two runs" can be the result of hitting a catcher. Get your thoughts in order.

By the way...in many cases, intent is not a factor, so whether or not an "accident" was involved may be meaningless.

[briancurtin]

the rule book is often available from whoever runs your league. if you follow OBR (aka Pro Rules, Major League Rules) then you can find it in most book stores

[gulf breeze]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I'd love to help. First, try reposting your question using understandable English. Tell the story in chonological order...what happened first, what happened next, what happened after that, etc.

The way it stands now, we are left trying to understand how "scoring a triple scoring two runs" can be the result of hitting a catcher. Get your thoughts in order.

By the way...in many cases, intent is not a factor, so whether or not an "accident" was involved may be meaningless.

sorry player hits a triple inavertently hittig the catcher on the back swing..he gets to third base scoring two runs..the catcher after coaching crys but stays in the game..there was no warning for this before in the game..the ruleing was that the batter is dqed and can not play the rest of this game and the rest of the tourny,,also the two runs were taken away..thank you..

[SAump]

A) While hitting the catcher on the back swing, the batter was still holding onto the bat in the back of the batter's box.
or
B) While releasing the bat after the swing, the bat flew backward and hit the catcher after being tossed by the batter as the batter began to run to first base.

[gulf breeze]

Originally Posted by SAump

A) While hitting the catcher on the back swing, the batter was still holding onto the bat in the back of the batter's box.
or
B) While releasing the bat after the swing, the bat flew backward and hit the catcher after being tossed by the batter as the batter began to run to first base.

b is the answer thank you again

[SAump]

Ok, the batter released the bat and hit the catcher.

How many outs, what inning, and did the coach discuss the matter with PU?

How did this play have an impact on the final score?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by gulf breeze

sorry player hits a triple inavertently hittig the catcher on the back swing..he gets to third base scoring two runs..the catcher after coaching crys but stays in the game..there was no warning for this before in the game..the ruleing was that the batter is dqed and can not play the rest of this game and the rest of the tourny,,also the two runs were taken away..thank you..

SA,

Won't the real SA please shut up, please shut up, please shut up!

As youze kin planely cee frum the orijunal siteation hear, the sorry player hits a triple inaverently hittig the catcher on the back swing. Their wuz no intent on the part of the batter, but the ruleing wuz that the batter is dqed and can not play the rest of the game and the rest of the tourny.

Follow closely now SA.....The point hear iz that their wuz no warnin' given on an accedent throwin' of the bat, and the thrown bat did not interfere with anything. The batter hit a triple, so the catcher wuz not making a play. You are rong. Rong is rong. Rong, rong, rong. The blue that every body hates around the wurld wuz rong to! He shudent have taked away the 2 runs neither. It shud have rezulted in a warnin' only.

Thank youze fur you're support.

[Carbide Keyman]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

SA,

Won't the real SA please shut up, please shut up, please shut up!

As youze kin planely cee frum the orijunal siteation hear, the sorry player hits a triple inaverently hittig the catcher on the back swing. Their wuz no intent on the part of the batter, but the ruleing wuz that the batter is dqed and can not play the rest of the game and the rest of the tourny.

Follow closely now SA.....The point hear iz that their wuz no warnin' given on an accedent throwin' of the bat, and the thrown bat did not interfere with anything. The batter hit a triple, so the catcher wuz not making a play. You are rong. Rong is rong. Rong, rong, rong. The blue that every body hates around the wurld wuz rong to! He shudent have taked away the 2 runs neither. It shud have rezulted in a warnin' only.

Thank youze fur you're support.

We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO




Doug

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

SA,

Won't the real SA please shut up, please shut up, please shut up!

As youze kin planely cee frum the orijunal siteation hear, the sorry player hits a triple inaverently hittig the catcher on the back swing. Their wuz no intent on the part of the batter, but the ruleing wuz that the batter is dqed and can not play the rest of the game and the rest of the tourny.

Follow closely now SA.....The point hear iz that their wuz no warnin' given on an accedent throwin' of the bat, and the thrown bat did not interfere with anything. The batter hit a triple, so the catcher wuz not making a play. You are rong. Rong is rong. Rong, rong, rong. The blue that every body hates around the wurld wuz rong to! He shudent have taked away the 2 runs neither. It shud have rezulted in a warnin' only.

Thank youze fur you're support.

I wuz jest funnin' around with this post, so nobody git bent outta shape hear!

This was post #76 in this thread (now we are on 120!!!), where the original situation was pointed out to SA, and he was informed that he was wrong. He is still wrong. Rong, rong, rong!

[NFump]

Originally Posted by gulf breeze

sorry player hits a triple inavertently hittig the catcher on the back swing..he gets to third base scoring two runs..the catcher after coaching crys but stays in the game..there was no warning for this before in the game..the ruleing was that the batter is dqed and can not play the rest of this game and the rest of the tourny,,also the two runs were taken away..thank you..

So you're saying the catcher, at the time of the batter swinging the bat, was not behind the plate(which is foul territory)? And oh yeah, the batter hit a triple(it doesn't matter how many were on) there was no play being made at the time of (your) interference. Is it sinking in yet?

[SAump]

Originally Posted by NFump

So you're saying the catcher, at the time of the batter swinging the bat, was not behind the plate(which is foul territory)? And oh yeah, the batter hit a triple(it doesn't matter how many were on) there was no play being made at the time of (your) interference. Is it sinking in yet?

If batter hit catcher on the backswing after a triple, I got nothing.

Have you read the entire thread? It matters because I have no intereference if NO one runs home past an injured catcher to score a run.

[NFump]

SA, do you recognize this statement?

"I left the warning on the table for a MINOR infraction, but a MAJOR accident is reason enough for an immediate expulsion and an OUT. You are definitely putting the game ahead of the safety of those involved. I will not."

You were getting an out here for a MAJOR accident, not for interference. That was first. You realized at this point you were wrong and started grabbing at anything you could to shore yourself up.

"Well if a bat harmlessly flying through the air may cause interference with a catcher attempting to make a play, I believe a bat that decks the catcher who is not attempting to make any play is also grounds for interference. JMOHO."

Now it's interference. And your own words stating the catcher was not attempting to make any play.

"I NO LONGER agree with your interpretation of an accident that results in serious injury. The batter is responsible for his actions which includes safely releasing the bat. I am not ruling on a carelessly thrown bat. I am ruling on a bat that makes serious CONTACT with the catcher or UMPIRE (MALICIOUS). That B/R is OUT immediately and ejected for MC."

Now it's that safety thing again and malicious contact. More flailing around than a drunk who thinks he's falling down.

A rule also allows for the immediate ejection of a batter or runner who intentionally throws his helmet or bat down at the ground or at a fence or wall in a violent manner. No warnings and no ADDITIONAL OUTS are allowed by rule (EX: Out on called 3rd strike and another out for throwing both helmet and bat in dispute of bad call).

Now we've got the batter throwing his bat at the ground or at a fence or wall in a violent manner when he was really just swinging at a pitch. Oh and by the way, you can't get two outs on the same guy. Brilliant!

"THROWING THE BAT RULE
Young players quite often let go of the bat during or after a swing and sometimes hit another player. There is no rule that covers this situation. It is a safety issue and may be handled under the authority of rule 9.01(c) which gives the umpire authority to rule on anything not specifically covered in the rules.I feel the batter interfered with the catcher's ability to field his position. I would call the batter OUT for interference by rule and return the runner to 3B, the last base legally obtained at TOI. If the bases were loaded, I would rule a DP as a result of this interference if I felt one was possible."

Now you're using 9.01c and back to the safety thing and using interference as well as getting a DP. Not to mention, in your own words, that you acknowledge the fact that there is no rule that covers this situation.

"6.7.1 The batter is out and the ball is dead if (a) the batter throws the bat unintentionally in a dangerous manner and it hits the catcher, umpire, any player, or coach in his normal position, goes into a dugout or into the crowd which is outside of the playing field (bat must hit spectator or player); or (b) the batter intentionally throws the bat in a dangerous manner or (c) upon hitting a fair or foul ball, the batter unintentionally throws the bat and it interferes with play in any way. These are not appeal plays. They are interference plays and "in a dangerous manner" is to be adjudged by the umpire."

Another gem found on the internet. Which rule set was this again? I thought it was supposed to be USSSA(which uses OBR, modified).

And there was this beauty of a post:

"Topic: Baseball Instruction
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Expert: Mike Fortunato
Date: 5/3/2005
Subject: Thrown bat ruling
Question
Hi, Mike:

I have extensive experience playing and managing in pro ball, but Williamsport Little League umpiring astounds me. In yesterday's game (12-year-old, majors division), with the bases loaded and two out, the batter swings and misses and throws his bat, and is given a warning by the plate umpire. On the next pitch he taps one back to the mound, but again throws his bat, this time taking out the catcher. The pitcher fields the ball and goes home with it, but the catcher has been injured by the bat and stumbles to get to the plate to take the throw. He is late getting there. The umpire calls the runner at home safe, then throws the hitter out for throwing the bat! He does not call an out, allows the run, and has the coach replace the batter with a pinch-runner at first. We protested that, if the batter is out of the game for throwing the bat, he can't be safe at first. Also, that the bat interfered with the catcher and therefore the batter is out. How can this umpire be right? Thanks!

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Answer
Wow! Based on your description, I would have to agree with you. If I were umpiring that game, I definitely would not have allowed the run to score (based on obstruction). And if the batter was tossed from the game, it's ludicrous that he wouldn't be called out! Only thing I can think of is that the ump's judgment was that the bat was not thrown purposefully -- but even still, he had already issued a warning. Based on my understanding of the situation, your protest would seem to be valid. Whether they overturn the call or not is another matter, since this involves umpire judgment to some degree.

Sorry you had to endure that kind of call. You'd certainly think that Little League would have their best umpires at Williamsport!

Best of luck,

Mike Fortunato"

Nuff said bout dat.

"There is a rule, and I posted it here (again). That was the crux of my argument or conundrum. I did not make up the rule. I know it exists."

Yeah, you know it exists yet you say there isn't one(which explains why you can't find it). So you keep going back and forth, back and forth, it's interference, no, it's a safety issue, no wait it's both. Meanwhile myself and everyone else has stated the same thing the whole time. You cannot get an out here. I hope you will see the light at the end of the tunnel someday.

Thanks for playing
Good night.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SAump

If batter hit catcher on the backswing after a triple, I got nothing.

Have you read the entire thread? It matters because I have no intereference if NO one runs home past an injured catcher to score a run.

It wouldn't matter at all even if there were a runner trying to advance. You still cannot get an out here for contact made on the backswing unless it was an intentional act.

6.06(c)

If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire's judgment, unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the backswing before the catcher has securely held the ball, it shall be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead, however, and no runner shall advance on the play.



Tim.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by gulf breeze

we are in a u 10 ussa tourny ..a batter hit the catcher during the progress of the game and scored a triple scoring two runs..no warning and he was ejected form this game .the runs were taken away and he is going to be ejected for the rest of the tourny..please help what is the ruleing.by the book...this was a accedent..help

--------------------
Hey guys, since you like to chew your food, I want to let you know that I am about well-done on this issue. Why don't you go back and chew up the red meat left under the bus. I would like to see HOW you swallow the UMPS/TD who were at the BALLGAME. I already know how you feel about the call. I want to know how enjoy the rest of the meal.

Let me put it this way. I suppose it is easy for an UMPIRE of your caliber to sit on the sidelines and criticize the rulings of every other umpire. I supppose the umpires at that tournament did not fully comprehend the rules either. Please explain why the umpires at that ballpark decided to bend the rules and eject the offender and wipe the runs off the board. Perhaps you may write a letter to the TD and offer your services at the next clinic.

I would like to read that letter.