The AMLU's Birmingham Folly

[LMan]

Originally Posted by MPHump

Would that horse be considered a minority horse?

A minority horse is a horse, of course.....

[BlueLawyer]

I take it no one refutes the assertion that PBUC wants to increase the health insurance deductible to $500- wiping out almost all of the "raise".

PBUC talking point #9:

9. You signed up knowing that eventually, you'd have to pay for the privilege of umpiring. Quit your bellyachin'! Why, when I was a minor league umpire, we used to walk uphill ten miles (both to and from the ballpark) in waist deep snow from the cardboard box we were staying in to get to the stadium. The plate guy had to drag his gear along the ground in a trash bag. We ate the peanut shells off of the grandstand floor for dinner and WE NEVER COMPLAINED . . .

Strikes and outs!

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

The funny thing about GenX, Y and Z...they don't want to pay their dues...give me instant gratification baby! It is about much more than showing up on time and making the calls. Boot camp takes the heart out of you before building you up. Yes, we agree that you should make more, but whining about not getting by on 10-15,000 for five months' work is petty. You and I both know you aren't living on just the PBUC salary. Get a better off season job and start saving, we did and are fine now. Do you need help investing your money?

[DIV2ump]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

I take it no one refutes the assertion that PBUC wants to increase the health insurance deductible to $500- wiping out almost all of the "raise".

I read a quote somewhere that in the last few years only a handful of umpires would have been affected by the deductible increase because most umps stay in-network and that the union was being misleading about this. I think it was a quote from a PBUC official.

I don't think the peanut gallery is in a good position to say who's right on this, how can we know?

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by Gazette

Andy Roberts, 32, has been an umpire for seven years and was promoted to the Triple-A International League last season. Roberts said no AMLU member has crossed the picket line.

“We haven’t had a pay increase in over 10 years,” Roberts said. “Before we unionized in 2000, there had been a pay cut and a pay freeze.”

Roberts said the average salary for Triple-A umpires is $15,000. It’s $12,500 for Double-A, $10,000 for A and about $5,000 for short-season rookie leagues.

Major league umpires make between $90,000 and $350,000 with benefits and a quality pension. Most minor league umpires have offseason jobs.

Roberts, who played in college at Birmingham Southern, works for a life insurance company and owns a kids baseball school.

“If you’re not a bachelor living with mom and dad, it’s hard to make a living,” said Roberts, who is married with a 17-month-old daughter.

Roberts said the AMLU wants a 20 percent increase in salary, a significant per diem increase ($25 to $40 for Triple-A), improvement in on-field evaluation and an unbiased arbitrator to resolve disputes.

They have been offered $100 a month more in salary and $1 more per day in per diem, but that is countered by an increase from $100 to $500 per year in insurance deductibles.

“That wipes out our raise,” Roberts said.

With low pay, endless driving from series to series, time away from family and little chance of reaching the majors, why become a minor league umpire?

“It’s a love for the game,” Roberts said. “But it’s extremely difficult for five months on the road, and the incentive is less than it has been in the past.”

Any more speculation about what the brass is seeking?

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

I would quote, but it's frankly more work than I want to do right now.

If I understand the themes/talking points of those who think the AMLU is wrong to strike, they are, generally:

1. College/high school/other good amatuer umpires can (and are) adequately replacing the AMLU guys.

2. Baseball, overall, is no worse off for the AMLU strike.

3. Since there are hundreds if not thousands of vult errrrrr fellow qualified umpires waiting in the wings to drive to Tulsa, Bakersfield, Rockford and Des Moines, the AMLU is wrong or wrongheaded to strike.

4. $15,000 is PLENTY of money for 5 months of work. The fact that the umpires have experienced a net pay cut over the life of the contract with inflation (in particular, health care costs and gasoline) is irrelevant. Any adult can live on $20 a day eating out and maintain a non-Froemming-like physique.

5. The AMLU guys all took the job knowing that MiLB thinks Scrooge's main problem was his boundless generosity. Therefore, the AMLU guys deserve to make what they make.

6. Umpiring the minor leagues is unlike brain surgery, teaching in an inner city, the Peace Corps, toting an M-60 in a combat zone or translating ancient Sanskrit. Therefore, comparing AMLU umpires to those professions is unfair, and minor league umpires don't deserve to make as much as any of those professionals. Therefore, it is ok for PBUC/MiLB to pay AAA umpires $15k a year.

7. On the other hand, umpiring in the minor leagues is unlike umpiring amatuer baseball at any level. Therefore, comparing AMLU umpires to their amatuer brothers and sisters is unfair, and there can be no just comparison for the compensation between the two groups. Therefore, it is ok for PBUC/MiLB to pay AAA umpires $15k a year.


8. On the still THIRD hand, umpiring in the minor leagues is unlike umpiring in the major leagues. Therefore, comparing AMLU umpires to their major league brethern is unfair, and there is no basis for comparison in their relative compensation packages. Therefore, it is ok for PBUC/MiLB to pay AAA umpires $15k a year.


Feel free (I know I don't have to invite) to correct any unfair characterizations or add any important points I have missed.

Here's the question to which I am led from MiLB/PBUC talking points six through eight above: What's the RIGHT comparison? "They are worth what PBUC will pay them" is a cop-out answer. But if those of us who support this union and its efforts to get a living wage are wrong in our analysis, tell us what the right analysis is, and support your answer with logic, please.

Strikes and outs!

Where is the outrage?
Of all those in the umpire community the MLB umps know better than any one the poverty level pay scale, terrible work conditions, inordinate amount of unpaid overtime via extra inning games and the constant verbal abuse the MiLB are subjected to.
Most MiLB members and supporters want to condemn the so called 'scab' who more than likely is a middleaged man of moderate income with a family to support. The $100 he earns at this level far exceeds the $40 or 50 he normally gets and all the money he gets from umpiring will end up being eaten up by the family budget. (I'm speaking generally, not universally) So the money he earns goes towards raising a family. You also have the thrill factor of umpiring a professional game in front of thousands, that's something few umpires ever have the privelege of experiencing. But the replacement is a scab and worthy of all our disdain and hatred as well as deseving of being blackballed within our community.
But the MLB ump making $200 Gs is probably the only ump within our 'brotherhood' that can actually make an impact by striking. Why are they crossing the picket line(so to speak) and getting a free pass while Joe ump realizes a dream very few get to experience and is demonized for it.
If anyone is a scab in this it's the fat cat umps at MLB.
If you want to argue that it's not their fight then how can you argue that it's the fight of any replacement.
Why isn't the MiLB demonizing the MLB for not supporting the 'brotherhood'?
MLB has much more in common with MiLB than any 'amateur ump'

I think referring to the replacements as vultures is ridiculus if you don't also have just as much disdain for MLB for their lack of support.

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by NIump50

Where is the outrage?
Of all those in the umpire community the MLB umps know better than any one the poverty level pay scale, terrible work conditions, inordinate amount of unpaid overtime via extra inning games and the constant verbal abuse the MiLB are subjected to.
Most MiLB members and supporters want to condemn the so called 'scab' who more than likely is a middleaged man of moderate income with a family to support. The $100 he earns at this level far exceeds the $40 or 50 he normally gets and all the money he gets from umpiring will end up being eaten up by the family budget. (I'm speaking generally, not universally) So the money he earns goes towards raising a family. You also have the thrill factor of umpiring a professional game in front of thousands, that's something few umpires ever have the privelege of experiencing. But the replacement is a scab and worthy of all our disdain and hatred as well as deseving of being blackballed within our community.
But the MLB ump making $200 Gs is probably the only ump within our 'brotherhood' that can actually make an impact by striking. Why are they crossing the picket line(so to speak) and getting a free pass while Joe ump realizes a dream very few get to experience and is demonized for it.
If anyone is a scab in this it's the fat cat umps at MLB.
If you want to argue that it's not their fight then how can you argue that it's the fight of any replacement.
Why isn't the MiLB demonizing the MLB for not supporting the 'brotherhood'?
MLB has much more in common with MiLB than any 'amateur ump'

I think referring to the replacements as vultures is ridiculus if you don't also have just as much disdain for MLB for their lack of support.

Huh?

Anti-AMLU talking point number 10- It's the MLB umpires' fault. After all, if they were making comparable to what AAA guys make, nobody would want the job. And if THEY went on strike, why what a fine kettle of fish baseball would be in!

Forget, of course, that striking in the middle of their contract without good legal grounds (and I don't think this qualifies) would give MLB THE perfect excuse to fire them. And if you don't think they would, I suggest you look closely back at the last 30 year history of baseball and umpire labor relations. Heck, look back at the last 100 years of baseball/labor relations. You may cuss unions, you may cuss player and umpire salaries. The fact is, folks, baseball is a profitable business, on the whole. Not every team and every owner makes money, but most do, or billionares wouldn't keep buying clubs.

I didn't like Curt Flood because I was and am a Phillies fan. But he was, in the end, right. And so are the AMLU guys. We can live with the current system, for fans, players and umpires, or we can go back to Charles Comiskey.

What is it, precisely, that you would have WUA do? Strike too? (Bad pun.) You can't have it both ways. You can't say on the one hand that MiLB and MLB are different worlds with different conditions and then turn around and blame the MLB umpires for going to work. The MLB guys starts- STARTS- at more than 5 times the maximum a AAA umpire makes.

My point, such as it was, was in response to WWTB or DIV2 or the numerous other people on this board who think that AMLU is wrong, at least tactically to strike because of the hundreds if not thousands of other, just as qualified
umpires out there just itching to take their places. Argue logically. Please. Leave the bait and switch off of this board.

Strikes and outs!

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by lawump

My point, such as it was, was in response to WWTB or DIV2 or the numerous other people on this board who think that AMLU is wrong, at least tactically to strike because of the hundreds if not thousands of other, just as qualified umpires out there just itching to take their places. Argue logically. Please. Leave the bait and switch off of this board.

Don't put words in my mouth or mischaracterize what I've written for over six months. I never wrote that they were wrong to strike because of the presence of a capable replacement workforce presence. I have insisted that striking - after you knew the bargain going into it - looks petty. I also wrote that most of us agree that they should be paid more for their talent. Few of us dispute that they are better qualified to serve that game than the average amateur. However, the replacements have been up to the task (with a few exceptions), the average fan doesn't care about the AMLU situation and the AMLU brass has selectively targeted amateurs with threats and intimidation. Those are mistakes.

The recent cry that the media has finally taken notice is laughable. A few local beat reporters are looking to make a name for themselves. I never realized that umpires gave so much creedence to what a skipper or player said about the calls. Yet, these same jokers who call themselves professional are posting stories on their site extolling how smart the skippers and players must be. So let me ask you this AMLU gang...when you walk onto the field and the skipper says, "Wow, we had a crew here last series that was just brutal. The zone was all over the place and they didn't know where they should be to make certain calls." Do you ignore them and accept the fact that most of them don't even know a basic balk when they see it, much less umpire mechanics? That's what I was taught to do, but apparently you find that ripping apart another crews' job is acceptable and professional. The beauty of this is that you will be out there some day and tell that same skipper that he doesn't know what he's talking about when he challenges you or your partner(s).

[DIV2ump]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

My point, such as it was, was in response to WWTB or DIV2 or the numerous other people on this board who think that AMLU is wrong, at least tactically to strike because of the hundreds if not thousands of other, just as qualified umpires out there just itching to take their places.

Huh?

They can strike away. I don't know if its a good decision or not. The proof is in the pudding and we can't tell until this is over. My problem is with the late night phone harassing phone calls they make to the replacements ("scab" in mindless union supporter parlance) and their families, the unprofessional heckling of the replacements at games and the brilliant "scab photo gallery."

[lawump]

WWTB,

Dude...if you are going to f'n quote me (as you did in your last post on this thread)...at least make sure its a quote from me. Please don't attribute quotes to me that aren't mine.

That's the second time you screwed up a quote from me. First, you attempted to say that I said 1979 wasn't a strike.

Now your putting a whole quote on your post and saying that I originally posted it.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DIV2ump

Huh?

They can strike away. I don't know if its a good decision or not. The proof is in the pudding and we can't tell until this is over.

It's true in some sense that the proof is in the pudding. However, it is possible to criticize the decision to strike, on the grounds that the AMLU has insufficient leverage over MiLB to make a strike work. They knew this (or should have known it) ahead of the decision to strike. This is the reason that many around baseball have criticized the leadership of the AMLU: they were either rash or ignorant (or both), neither of these being valuable qualities in leadership.

An outcome favorable to the AMLU is still possible, but unlikely, just as it was before the strike. We can all hope for the best, but the decision to strike was still a poor one, even with a favorable outcome.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by DIV2ump

Huh?

They can strike away. I don't know if its a good decision or not. The proof is in the pudding and we can't tell until this is over.

I disagree. There are those of us who defend the MiLB umpires and support their demands who also believe they were not represented wll by their leaders in the AMLU. Much of what has developed was predictable and predicted.

The AMLU is not like the miners union, whose own members,for the most part are not fans of their jobs. There are not lines of replacements waiting to work the mines during their strikes, thus the union wins the "numbers" game with management. The AMLU is comprised of members, who, for the most part, love their jobs and there is a pool of replacements larger than the number of openings. Thus the AMLU loses the numbers game.

Again, using the miners as our example, most, as a result of their location and socio-economic status, truly believe they have no option but to work the mines. This status has been accepted by the media and translates into widespread sympathetic coverage and requires more diplomatic handling by management. MiLB umpires, perhaps more than any other trade in the country, ply their trade by choice, many having given up other, more profitable opportunities. While we umpires admire this, it is not seen as a position of strength by the media, management or fans. Simply put, most AMLU members and their families would be better off if they did not umpire baseball. Again, this is not a position of strength.

As they indicated they would, management has done a good job of positioning the umpires as, at best, part-time employees and even "apprentices". Even the mediator was swayed in part by this argument.

Instead of approaching amateur umpires with a campaign of what the "right thing to do" is and why, the AMLU adopted heavy handed, teamster-like tactics of intimidation, harassment, ridicule and in at least one case, outright lying.

When the strike ends, no matter how both sides claim victory, and they both will, one truth will be that the MiLB umpires will never, in their MiLB career, recoup the money they have lost during the strike.

If, as some AMLU leaders contend, the strike was more for future umpires than the present umpires, incremental changes beginning at the A level could have been negotiated that would have spread to the upper levels as those umpires progressed through the system.

MiLB umpires deserve more money. MiLB umpires deserve better benefits. MiLB umpires deserve more respect and protection. Most importantly, however, MiLB umpires deserve better union leadership.

[NIump50]

Originally Posted by GarthB

MiLB umpires deserve more money. MiLB umpires deserve better benefits. MiLB umpires deserve more respect and protection. Most importantly, however, MiLB umpires deserve better union leadership.

My lawn care guys deserve more money too, so does my grocer, my pizza delivery guy, my mechanic, etc etc My propane guy, now he doesn't deserve anymore and guess what, he's the hardest on the list to replace.
Did I mention me, I deserve more
They may all deserve more but guess what, they're all easily replaced. And chances are they won't be getting more any time soon. Pretty simple economics.
Really when you think about it, of all the work force working at the level they're at, the MiLB may be the least deserving. They're working at those wages by choice and virtually all of them have better opportunities outside of umpiring. The rest of the work force surviving at those wage levels are there out of necessity and have much less opportunity for improvement.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally Posted by lawump

WWTB,

Dude...if you are going to f'n quote me (as you did in your last post on this thread)...at least make sure its a quote from me. Please don't attribute quotes to me that aren't mine.

That's the second time you screwed up a quote from me. First, you attempted to say that I said 1979 wasn't a strike.

Now your putting a whole quote on your post and saying that I originally posted it.

Oh, get over yourself...you sound like the other guy and both of you use noms de net that imply legal expertise. Yes, I attributed to the wrong barrister - there, mea culpa. I suggest you go back and read the post about 1979 again and then make your apology.

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by WhatWuzThatBlue

Oh, get over yourself...you sound like the other guy and both of you use noms de net that imply legal expertise. Yes, I attributed to the wrong barrister - there, mea culpa. I suggest you go back and read the post about 1979 again and then make your apology.

Yeah, you know, we all sound alike.

I don't need to imply anything. I yam what I yam.

Even your "apology" seethes with conceit, dude. Pepper your posts with some more Latin. It makes you sound much cooler.

Strikes and outs!