DH situation

[Huskerblue]

NAIA game. 10 player lineup with a DH. After 3 innings, Manager wants to change pitchers but wants his starting pitcher to now go out to CF. This move would then terminate the DH. Centerfielder comes out of the game to make room for the new pitcher. Is this a legal substitution? I say yes it is, but we have some dissent in the ranks around here and would like some other opinions.

[BEAREF]

Why would this eliminate the DH? The subsitute is coming in for the centerfielder NOT the pitcher. Then there are position changes done in the field. The batting order has not changed so the DH still bats. Or am I missing something here?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Why would this eliminate the DH? The subsitute is coming in for the centerfielder NOT the pitcher. Then there are position changes done in the field. The batting order has not changed so the DH still bats. Or am I missing something here?

Well, that all depends. Are using NCAA or OBR DH rules? I am assuming NCAA, so ...

Huskerblue, please tell us when the change is made - while on offense or defense?

[Huskerblue]

NAIA rules are the same as OBR with the exception of a few modifications. According to rule 6.10 of the OBR on p. 54 it states.."once the pitcher is switched form the mound to a defensive position, this move shall terminate the DH role for the remainder of the game." The starting Pitcher must now bat in the DH slot and the new pitcher brought into the game would bat in the former CF's position in the lineup, correct???? The switch was made between innings.

[DG]

NAIA 6.10-3 and 4 - The starting pitcher can be the DH (pitcher on defense, DH on offense) if the designation is noted on the lineup card prior to the game. The starting pitcher is the only pitcher in the game that that can assume such double role. Such player is allowed to remain as DH when replaced as pitcher, but may no longer play a defensive position.

NCAA 7-2B - If no DH is listed, the pitcher is automatically considered the DH on offense and the pitcher on defense.

So, how this works is if they start with a 9 man lineup, the pitcher can stay in the game as a hitter (DH) when he is replaced as the pitcher. The new pitcher does not bat. If you start with 10 man lineup this does not work because in this case the pitcher is not serving a dual role.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by PWL

NCAA DH rules.

You have a DH for the pitcher.

DH can come in as the pitcher.

DH comes out as the pitcher but can remain in the line-up as the DH.

NCAA has no re-entry rule.

Are all the above statements true?

Maybe - with NCAA it can depend on when the chages are made (Offense or defense). The NCAA DH rule is perhaps the most difficult rule in baseball. Don't try to make any sense out of it, just memorize the thing.

Papa C wrote a very entertaining article a few years ago on this subject:

http://childress.officiating.com/?d=...+-+and+Why.pdf

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by PWL

I haven't read it, but after seeing it in effect on couple of occasions I wasn't sure what was going on. I don't think anyone else was either, but I think my explanation made the most sense at the time.

Welcome to NCAA baseball! Don't forget to place the hand-dandy laminated DH rule card in your pocket.

As far as your questions - still depends on when the changes are made. In general, once a player leaves the batting order they can never go back. It's making sense of what is and what is not a double switch that causes heartburn.

The good news is that few coaches know the rule either, so they don'y push the envelope. The smart ones - go check before you say no.

Read the article & chuckle. Then read it again (5 or 10 times) & learn.

[Huskerblue]

OK, in Papa C's article, look at #2 of the 7 principles of the DH.

#2 The pitcher plays defense.
Play 2: The pitcher replaces F3. Ruling. No more DH. the pitcher hits in the spot vacated by the DH. the old pitcher bats in F3's spot.

So in my situation, that would have been a legal substitution, I just had the old pitcher batting in the incorrect slot. I had old pitcher batting in the DH spot and the new pitcher batting in the slot of the replaced defensive player. That should be flip flopped. New pitcher bats in the DH slot and the old batting in my case the CF spot.

That's the NCAA interp. Would this apply to OBR as well?

[irefky]

why not just one set of rules???????

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by irefky

why not just one set of rules???????

Because that would make too much sense.

[Huskerblue]

This is the official ruling I was given.

The pitcher may play a defensive position. Once he does this, the DH shall be terminated for the remainder of the game. The starting pitcher must bat in the slot vacated by the defensive player he is replacing on defense. The new pitcher would then bat in the slot vacated by the DH.

In NAIA rules, the pitcher does not have to be listed as the P/DH on the lineup card. And this does not prevent him from playing defense in a different position.