What's the Call? Base on Balls

[MajorDave]

Had this one today. Catcher is batter, draws BOB, heads to first and as he is approaching first the coach at third base box yells across diamond for a certain player to run as courtesy/speed up runner. So the batter-runner turns and heads toward dugout but does not enter, takes his helmet off at doorway to dugout while courtesy runner essentially blocks batter-runner from entering dugout and they bump in to each other. Opposing head coach starts yelling that batter-runner is out as he abandoned first. Base umpire signals out then reverses after asking if batter-runner entered dugout and plate umpire signals that he did not and that it was essentially a dead ball due to BOB. Defensive coach goes semi-ballistic and both coaches argue with plate umpire resulting in no ejections, batter-runner putting helmet back on and touching first followed by time-out and courtesy runner taking his place on first. Was this the right call-NFHS game.

Any comments? Suggestions. Yes a messed up situation but it worked out as defensive team wound up winning big.

[DG]

This is not abandonement. Abandonement is for runners who have reached 1B and abandon a following base. This is desertion. Desertion is for a runner who does not touch 1B and instead "progresses a reasonable distance toward his dugout or defensive position, and indicates no intent to reassert his status as a runner has abandoned hsi effor to run the bases. The cause of his actions (e.g., ignorance or apathy) is irrelevant." Call him out.

Third base coach, and the players will learn a lesson on desertion and and it should never happen again.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

Opposing head coach starts yelling that batter-runner is out as he abandoned first. Base umpire signals out then reverses after asking if batter-runner entered dugout and plate umpire signals that he did not and that it was essentially a dead ball due to BOB.
Any comments? Suggestions. Yes a messed up situation but it worked out as defensive team wound up winning big.

Batter runner never entered the dugout, therefore no abandonment.
Essentially a dead ball? Only dead if time was called by an umpire
for the purpose of entering courtesy runner. If time was not called,
why did the defense not simply tag the runner while he was off
of the base? It is the offense's responsibility to know whether time
has been granted before replacing a runner.

[SAump]

"courtesy runner essentially blocks batter-runner from entering dugout and they bump in to each other."

The ball is live until the baserunner reaches first base and an umpire signals time to allow the substitution. Once baserunner is headed for the dugout, the defense may tag him OUT before he returns to first base.

The courtesy runner never properly entered the ballgame. Call the baserunner OUT on the interference at the dugout entrance. A coach or teammate is not allowed to make contact with a baserunner who mentally tripped-UP and entered DBT by mistake.

[BigUmp56]

DG gave you a combination of the ruling by two definitive resources. I don't believe that Evans directly address's desertion, but he does address abandonment. That's where the wording "progresses a reasonable distance" came from. The J/R is much more clear on how to handle desertion. If you want to start coaching players, even at the "subvarsity" level how to legally run the bases, go for it. It's not something I would do though, ever.


J/R

By rule, a Batter-Runner cannot be out for abandoning before touching (or passing) first base. However, a Batter-Runner who aborts an advance toward first base before touching (or passing) such base and reaches his bench, dugout, dugout steps, or defensive position is out because of his desertion. Desertion typically occurs when a third strike is not caught and the defense neglects tagging the B/R or first base. Although improbable, desertion can also occur an award (e.g., after ball four after the B/R goes directly to his dugout in favor of a pinch-runner) or a batted ball.


I think SA hit on a good point. While I don't think we can call this interference, I do think we should possibly issue a bench warning for the CR coming out of the dugout on a live ball. Just a thought.


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by SAump

"courtesy runner essentially blocks batter-runner from entering dugout and they bump in to each other."

The ball is live until the baserunner reaches first base and an umpire signals time to allow the substitution. Once baserunner is headed for the dugout, the defense may tag him OUT before he returns to first base.

The courtesy runner never properly entered the ballgame. Call the baserunner OUT on the interference at the dugout entrance. A coach or teammate is not allowed to make contact with a baserunner who mentally tripped-UP and entered DBT by mistake.

The batter-runner can not be tagged out before reaching 1B on a BOB. There is no interference. Please quote the rule by which "a coach or teammate is not allowd to make contact with a baserunner who mentally tripped-up and entered DBT my mistake."

This is a simple case of desertion and the BU made the right call.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by DG

The batter-runner can not be tagged out before reaching 1B on a BOB. There is no interference. Please quote the rule by which "a coach or teammate is not allowd to make contact with a baserunner who mentally tripped-up and entered DBT my mistake."

This is a simple case of desertion and the BU made the right call.

I wasn't clear as to whether the batter-runner actually made
it to the bag, so I guess i just ASSummed that he did. If he did not,
I agree with the desertion theory.

[SAump]

FED rules: Can the defense tag the runner after passing first on a BOB award? Yes

"The batter-runner can not be tagged out before reaching 1B on a BOB."

I agree with both of these statements but these are not the issue at hand.

"Please quote the rule by which "a coach or teammate is not allowed to make contact with a baserunner who mentally tripped-up and entered DBT my mistake."

I thought that it was interference. Can a baserunner run into his basecoach and scramble to base safely? Maybe. Can the basecoach grab a baserunner in DBT and push him back toward first? NO, he may not assist a baserunner.

"This is a simple case of desertion and the BU made the right call."

Half right, OUT for desertion, and half wrong, the BU made the right call. I disagree with allowing the runner to reach first base after this scenario. Prior to abandonment, the defense may tag the runner out. Now we have desertion in this case once the runner reached DBT. But prior to the desertion, may the defense tag the runner out once he veers toward DBT? I would make that call. Do I wait for the defense to leave the field after him or appeal the AWOL at first base?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

FED rules: Can the defense tag the runner after passing first on a BOB award? Yes

How? The ball is dead on a base on balls award, hence the runner may not be tagged out since the ball must be put into play. He may be tagged out (under FED rules) when he overruns first on a live-ball base on balls, but not on an award.

[SAump]

I made the mistake to think base ump made the right call with BOB.

I agree with Big Ump's explanation for desertion from J/R, OUT.

[SAump]

Please don't delete that SDS post any time soon. I am still trying to figure out just what your trying to say.

[DG]

"draws BOB, heads to first and as he is approaching first the coach at third base box yells across diamond for a certain player to run as courtesy/speed up runner. So the batter-runner turns and heads toward dugout"

I read the original post to mean the batter did not reach 1B. I can not read the post any other way. The batter "draws a BOB", so the ball is LIVE. A base on balls is considered an award of 1B, but the ball is LIVE during the award. How many times has a defensive coach requested time while a batter walks to 1B and you say "not till he reaches 1b"? This was not an intentional walk in which case the ball is dead for the award.

The batter does not have to reach DBT to be declared out for desertion, just far enough for the umpire to believe he is deserting.

[MajorDave]

Thanks to all offering their analyses and ruling suggestions. I am encouraged by the depth and sincerity of the assistance offered by some of the great officiating minds on this site. (NOT B.S.-I mean it.)

I was the BU on this one. I am not trying to throw my partner under the bus on this, it was the 2d game of a very poorly played HS varsity DH. Both teams misplayed at least one ball per inning, swung at at least one bounced ball and one over their head per inning, at least one whine by at least one coach per inning. At least one wild pitch and/or passed ball per batter/per team/per inning. No less than ten dropped fly balls on the afternoon. No homeruns even though it was a former Babe Ruth league field that had been abandoned by the league for better facilities at another park. A six-hour baseball hell at a dirt infield park without real dugouts, just a concrete pad and wooden bench. Thank god the backstop was about 12 feet from home plate to prevent too many passed balls from getting too far away. There were houses with yards and dogs behind backstop so there were plenty of lost balls due to dog slobber and teeth marks. One team was arguing from the diamond back to their dugout for those in the dugout, coaches included, to not eat all the pizza. I am not making this up. You had to be there. Toughest $110 I've ever made.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

How? The ball is dead on a base on balls award, hence the runner may not be tagged out since the ball must be put into play. He may be tagged out (under FED rules) when he overruns first on a live-ball base on balls, but not on an award.

Any base on balls is technically an award.

I would not, never, never, call someone out on this.

[MajorDave]

I reversed my out call due to clarification that B/R never left playing field and entered dugout. Yes a bunch of messed up plays by two very poorly coached teams, in my opinion. Probably should have stuck with the out just to speed up the game. However, I think the B/R didn't deserve that as he was playing hard all day, unlike some of the other kids on his team. I am learning daily. I hope you all do too.