Ruling on this ...

[David Emerling]

Situation: R1 & R2. F3 not holding R1. The defense puts on a play in an attempt to pickoff R1. The play is supposed to work like this; F3 breaks for the bag while F1 twirls and throws. Fairly common. However, as F1 twirls toward 1st, F3 is late arriving to the bag. So F1 holds up, waits a split second for F3 to arrive at the bag, then throws. F1 throws wildly and the ball goes into dead-ball territory.

Ruling?

[LMan]

You got 'BigUmp56' disease lately, David, or what?


...would you call the initial 'hesitation' move to 1B a feint?

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by LMan

You got 'BigUmp56' disease lately, David, or what?

Every once in a while I sit down and go over the rules - as a refresher. Every time I do, my mind starts racing and I start concocting all kinds of situations in my head.

Yes - it's a disease. Somebody help me. I need group intervention.

...would you call the initial 'hesitation' move to 1B a feint?

(a) yes
(b) no

[mcrowder]

That's either a balk (umpire judgement - HTBT) - runner to 2nd, or it's an overthrow into DBT - runner to 2nd.

Was there supposed to be something else in this sitch to worry about?

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

That's either a balk (umpire judgement - HTBT) - runner to 2nd, or it's an overthrow into DBT - runner to 2nd.

Was there supposed to be something else in this sitch to worry about?

Well, it's kind of a silly point and I was trying to tie it in with the other discussion we are having regarding the 3-to-1 move.

I'm trying to ascertain several things with this play:

1) Is it considered a balk if a pitcher immediately makes a move toward 1st (without first disengaging the rubber) and does nothing other than wait for his 1st baseman to get into position ... even if it's only half-a-second?

2) Is the pause permissable as long as F1 ultimately does make the throw?

3) Finally: by the time the pitcher ultimately makes the throw (after the pause) is still considered "in contact" with the rubber? This is important because it will determine whether the runners are awarded one or two bases.

* * *

I'm inclined to rule on this play in the following manner:

Any move a pitcher makes toward 1st base from in contact with the rubber must result in an IMMEDIATE throw to the base. As soon as there is a discernible hesitation, I would call it a balk. It can't be a two-part maneuver.

I have no basis for this ruling other than the belief that this is the intent of the rule.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[UmpJM]

I'm inclined to rule on this play in the following manner:

Any move a pitcher makes toward 1st base from in contact with the rubber must result in an IMMEDIATE throw to the base. As soon as there is a discernible hesitation, I would call it a balk. It can't be a two-part maneuver.

I have no basis for this ruling other than the belief that this is the intent of the rule.

Dave,

By Jove, I think you've got it!!

As for the basis, how does this work for you? From J/R:

[It is a balk if a pitcher]

...

11. steps to first base....

(b) but interrupts or hesitates in his motion to throw there.

As mcrowder pointed out, the R1 is awarded one base on either the balk or the throw out of play from the rubber.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

1) yes

2) no

3) in contact

In FED, the ball is immediately dead upon the call of "Balk," which this is because you cannot hesitate the throw to first from the rubber.

In NCAA and OBR, the ball is not dead, and if the pitcher balks and throws the ball into DBT, the runner is awarded 2nd base for that reason. Since all runners advance at least one base, the balk is ignored.

If, however, the pitcher had stepped back off the rubber before the hesitating throw, there was no balk, and the runners get 2 bases from the time of the throw.

[UmpJM]

Steve,

Hate to be "picky" here but....

In NCAA and OBR, the ball is not dead, and if the pitcher balks and throws the ball into DBT, the runner is awarded 2nd base for that reason. Since all runners advance at least one base, the balk is ignored.

...is not quite right. In addition to any runner(s) advancing one base safely, the batter must also reach 1B safely in order for the balk to be disregarded. Since on a pick-off throw by a pitcher the batter cannot become a runner (let alone reach 1B safely), there is no circumstance where a called balk on an F1's pick-off throw is "disregarded".

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Otherwise, quite right about immediate dead in FED & maybe not in OBR/NCAA.

JM

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Well, it's kind of a silly point and I was trying to tie it in with the other discussion we are having regarding the 3-to-1 move.

I'm trying to ascertain several things with this play:

1) Is it considered a balk if a pitcher immediately makes a move toward 1st (without first disengaging the rubber) and does nothing other than wait for his 1st baseman to get into position ... even if it's only half-a-second?

2) Is the pause permissable as long as F1 ultimately does make the throw?

3) Finally: by the time the pitcher ultimately makes the throw (after the pause) is still considered "in contact" with the rubber? This is important because it will determine whether the runners are awarded one or two bases.

* * *

I'm inclined to rule on this play in the following manner:

Any move a pitcher makes toward 1st base from in contact with the rubber must result in an IMMEDIATE throw to the base. As soon as there is a discernible hesitation, I would call it a balk. It can't be a two-part maneuver.

I have no basis for this ruling other than the belief that this is the intent of the rule.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

If his arm slows, but doesn't stop, I have no balk. If it stops... balk.

Regarding your point 3, if for some reason he's not "in contact" (by whatever definition you need) with the rubber when he does throw... he has balked, since he stepped off toward first and didn't throw. He can't be both legal and not "in contact".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Steve,

Hate to be "picky" here but....



...is not quite right. In addition to any runner(s) advancing one base safely, the batter must also reach 1B safely in order for the balk to be disregarded. Since on a pick-off throw by a pitcher the batter cannot become a runner (let alone reach 1B safely), there is no circumstance where a called balk on an F1's pick-off throw is "disregarded".

Not true. Only the runners need advance. So, if F1's wild throw stayed in play and R1 advacned to third, you'd leave him there. If R1 attempted to advance to third but was thrown out, the out stands.

Now, that said, the plays I just described couldn't happen in the play DE used to start the thread. The balk is for "hesitating", so it can't be followed by a throw -- the ball is dead. If the balk was for not stepping properly as part of the throw, then the ball would remain live until the play eneded.

[UmpJM]

Bob,

You said:

Not true. Only the runners need advance. ...

But that's not what the rules say. And this can't be one of those FED differences because under FED the ball is immediately dead - so nobody can advance anywhere on play following tha balk. What am I missing?

From 8.05 (my emphasis):

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

From the MLBUM (my emphasis:

7.8 PENALTY FOR BALK

Under Official Baseball Rule 8.05, the penalty for a balk shall be: The ball is dead (when play stops), and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out unless the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

The penalty for a balk provides that if a batter reaches first base safely on a hit or error, base on balls, or otherwise on a pitch on which a balk is called, he shall be entitled to first base only if all other runners have advanced one base or more on the play, in which case the balk is disregarded.

If the batter-runner and all other runners do not advance, the balk penalty prevails, the batter must return to the batter's box with the previous count, and runners advance one base as penalty for the balk.

JM

[UmpJM]

Bob,

Never mind....

I just read a little further and found the A.R. which supoorts your (and Steve's) statement:

APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.

Sorry.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Bob,

Never mind....

I just read a little further and found the A.R. which supoorts your (and Steve's) statement:



Sorry.

JM

One reason it's written that way is that if the pitcher balks, but still completes a pitch, and the runners all advance (at least) base, the balk is IGNORED for the runners, but ACKNOWLEDGED for the batter (that is, it's "no pitch").

[UMP25]

And this is why coaches should not pretend to illustrate their rules knowledge.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Now, that said, the plays I just described couldn't happen in the play DE used to start the thread. The balk is for "hesitating", so it can't be followed by a throw -- the ball is dead. If the balk was for not stepping properly as part of the throw, then the ball would remain live until the play ended.

Bob,

I must have had a brain cramp on that one. Once he hesitated, that was the balk, and the ball would be dead right there under all codes, with no throw possible.