Hit by pitch?

[mcrowder]

Picture a lefty, about a step toward the pitcher from the front of the box. I believe this is the OP's sitch.

[greymule]

Yes. I didn't specify a lefty, but that's what I pictured, too.

[mcrowder]

I've seen 1 right handed true slap hitter in my entire career, so I thought it a relatively safe assumption.

[nickrego]

OK, re-read and agree with your interp.

Geez, I just can't picture a batter "running" inside the batters box to a pitched ball. What are we talking about, maybe two steps if he was at the very back of the box. But then, I haven't seen "everything" yet.

So, assuming the batter did not swing (or attempt in the umpire's judgement), and the ball hit the batter outside of the Strike Zone...

Ball to the batter, stay here for more abuse from the pitcher.

But, for me, if that bat was moving towards the pitch, even if being held while the body was moving, I am likely to say he went, and call a Strike. If a batter squares to bunt, and then moves his entire body towards the pitch (bat moves with them), that is an attempt. So why wouldn't it be for a Slap hit ?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Batters often run up to bunt, or slash bunt, and they are out of the batter's box, yet have not offered at the pitch. They aren't running "inside" they are running out of the front of the box.

I have also called batters out for making contact with the ball in these cases, as both feet have been entirely outside the box when the ball was hit.

[greymule]

Sometimes batters do run up and out of the box and actually make contact. They're out. More often, particularly if batters simply want to show slap or bunt to see what the defense is doing or keep them honest, they run up and out of the box with the foreknowledge that they're going to lay off the pitch, strike or not. I'm thinking more of those cases. Clearly out of the box, didn't offer, and got hit.

Those of us who also do high-level FP softball see more of this. Few batters are on the back line, and slaps and bunts are a (much) larger part of the game. But softball gives the batter an extra 12 inches forward. Their box is 3 by 7, not baseball's 4 by 6.

[DG]

I have not made this call in years, in fact I don't remember the last time. 2-2 count, batter is crowding the plate in the 6th, as he did in the 1st and the 4th. He leans into a pitch over the plate and in the strike zone. I ring up strike 3 and then explain it to the head coach, who did not complain. I expect this player gets hit alot the way he crowds the plate. Half the crowd is saying "good call blue" and the other half is saying stuff like "bush call", etc.

While I know this was the correct call, I was going over in my mind the what if, what if he was 3 inches in front of the plate when struck by what would have been a strike if allowed to enter the strike zone. Some here have made a good arguement for calling a ball, by rule, because the pitch had not entered the strike zone it can't be a strike. This seems extremely illogical to me. If you are struck by a pitch in front of the plate by a pitch that would most likely have been a strike if allowed to continue on it's path, it seems to me like that should be called a strike.

[greymule]

If the pitch had a chance to become a strike, then it should be called a strike. I don't think that anyone is claiming that that pitch should be called a ball. I'm talking about a pitch that has no chance to become a strike.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I don't know, greymule. There was just a huge debate on the subject of whether or not you should call a strike on a pitch that would have been a strike, but never made it to the zone. There seems to be quite a difference of opinion. Many feel that you cannot call a strike based on a pitch that "would have been" a strike.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Many feel that you cannot call a strike based on a pitch that "would have been" a strike.

But those who attended the Evans Clinic in Portland know that Jim believes you can and should.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Well Garth, I guess if Jimmy said it, it must be right!

[GarthB]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Well Garth, I guess if Jimmy said it, it must be right!

I would put that differently. When Jim tells students that, he is relating the accepted practice at the professional level.

Some wonder if Jim, retired since 1999, is still regarded highly at the professional level. Aside from his school placing the majority of the new minor league umpires during the time that has lapsed, he has also been consulted by members of the rules committee.

Some twenty of the the 237 mistakes he has identified in the major league rule book will be corrected in the next edition. As one member of the committee put it, referring to the process involved: "We'll get to them all, but it will take time."

[Edited by GarthB on Mar 18th, 2006 at 05:41 PM]

[SanDiegoSteve]

Garth,

I was just kiddin' around, being a smart astronaut. I would love to see Jim's corrections in the rule book someday.

This is a perfect example of something that belongs spelled out in the rules.

[nickrego]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Batters often run up to bunt, or slash bunt, and they are out of the batter's box, yet have not offered at the pitch. They aren't running "inside" they are running out of the front of the box.

I have also called batters out for making contact with the ball in these cases, as both feet have been entirely outside the box when the ball was hit.

But it only takes ONE foot to be out, for the OUT, right ?

[BigUmp56]

One foot out and entirely on the ground to call the batter out. I've only had to call it several times over the years and every time I've called a batter out for making contact while out of the box has been when they were laying down a drag bunt.


Tim.