All eyes on the ball...Don't like it !

[nickrego]

This year our association has adopted the newer mechanic of all umpires watching a fly ball hit into the outfield.

I think this is a bad mechanic, and don't like it one bit.

The point of having multiple umpires is not to have multiple sets of eyes on the same thing, but to have multiple sets of eyes on MORE things.

Example: No runners, ball hit into left field, the field umpire needs to be watching the runner for any interference, obstruction, or turn at 1st base, and to make sure he touches 1st base. The plate umpire needs to be watching and calling the ball. Now, both umpires are watching the ball, and sometimes calling the out. Very bad.

[Rich]

Originally posted by nickrego
This year our association has adopted the newer mechanic of all umpires watching a fly ball hit into the outfield.

I think this is a bad mechanic, and don't like it one bit.

The point of having multiple umpires is not to have multiple sets of eyes on the same thing, but to have multiple sets of eyes on MORE things.

Example: No runners, ball hit into left field, the field umpire needs to be watching the runner for any interference, obstruction, or turn at 1st base, and to make sure he touches 1st base. The plate umpire needs to be watching and calling the ball. Now, both umpires are watching the ball, and sometimes calling the out. Very bad.

What "newer" mechanic? Are you saying nobody is watching runners touch bases?

[Justme]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

What "newer" mechanic? Are you saying nobody is watching runners touch bases?

Per the California Baseball Umpires Association (authorized & encouraged to use)

ALL EYES ON THE BALL

On any fly ball down a foul line which has a chance to leave the field or any fly ball which may bounce over an outfield fence, all umpires on the crew are to watch the flight of the ball. Many times, the non-calling umpire(s) have a better look at the flight of the ball than the umpire responsible for making the call. On this type of play, the watching of runners touching bases is secondary.

In the event of a possible error by the calling umpire, the non-calling umpire is not to get involved in the play UNLESS there is a protest by either team. If there is a protest by either team, the umpiring crew should get together and discuss what it saw. If the calling umpire is sure he got a good look at the play, his call will stand.

With chain link fences, and short foul poles, it is often very difficult for an umpire to determine if the ball left the field in flight or bounced over a fence, or left the field in fair or foul territory. The “all eyes” concept will often be of great help in getting this tough play correct.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Justme

Per the California Baseball Umpires Association (authorized & encouraged to use)

ALL EYES ON THE BALL

On any fly ball down a foul line which has a chance to leave the field or any fly ball which may bounce over an outfield fence, all umpires on the crew are to watch the flight of the ball. Many times, the non-calling umpire(s) have a better look at the flight of the ball than the umpire responsible for making the call. On this type of play, the watching of runners touching bases is secondary.

In the event of a possible error by the calling umpire, the non-calling umpire is not to get involved in the play UNLESS there is a protest by either team. If there is a protest by either team, the umpiring crew should get together and discuss what it saw. If the calling umpire is sure he got a good look at the play, his call will stand.

With chain link fences, and short foul poles, it is often very difficult for an umpire to determine if the ball left the field in flight or bounced over a fence, or left the field in fair or foul territory. The “all eyes” concept will often be of great help in getting this tough play correct.

There's nothing wrong with this. We aren't talking about EVERY FLY BALL, though.

[irefky]

Originally posted by nickrego
This year our association has adopted the newer mechanic of all umpires watching a fly ball hit into the outfield.

I think this is a bad mechanic, and don't like it one bit.

The point of having multiple umpires is not to have multiple sets of eyes on the same thing, but to have multiple sets of eyes on MORE things.

Example: No runners, ball hit into left field, the field umpire needs to be watching the runner for any interference, obstruction, or turn at 1st base, and to make sure he touches 1st base. The plate umpire needs to be watching and calling the ball. Now, both umpires are watching the ball, and sometimes calling the out. Very bad.

I use the U thing, the "U" is an imaginary "U" that comes from position 7, looping in front of 2nd base and going into position 9. I hope I have not lost anyone. Anything on the foul side of 7 or 9 the PU will have it as the BU will watch the runners' activity. Of course any ball hit inside of the area, BU will cover and PU will watch the runner.

This is fed, 2 man crew. How many times are you guys in Ca going to be told, he did not touch the base. What will be your response? We don't look at that anymore? Or, it's not important. I am just thinking about what will happen. Has that been spoken about? Any others have any questions or concerns about this?

[Rich]

Originally posted by irefky

I use the U thing, the "U" is an imaginary "U" that comes from position 7, looping in front of 2nd base and going into position 9. I hope I have not lost anyone. Anything on the foul side of 7 or 9 the PU will have it as the BU will watch the runners' activity. Of course any ball hit inside of the area, BU will cover and PU will watch the runner.

This is fed, 2 man crew. How many times are you guys in Ca going to be told, he did not touch the base. What will be your response? We don't look at that anymore? Or, it's not important. I am just thinking about what will happen. Has that been spoken about? Any others have any questions or concerns about this?

With the bases empty, the plate umpire has every ball hit into the outfield UNLESS the base umpire in A goes out.

I have no problem with having an extra set of eyes on a potential home run ball down the line or even on a ball bouncing over the fence. But Nick makes it sound like umpires won't look at anything else. If that's the case, it's a training issue. If I was a coach, I'd have my runners cut corners.

[irefky]

and that is what will happen. Then you will have conferences with the defense coach about a player not tipping the bag. It could be the go ahead or winning run.

I agree with you Rich, but the CA thing says no. I would think that most umpires have conditioned themselves to be aware of the runner to touch the base but for the new umpire training under this is IMO not good.

[mcrowder]

You know this is only for borderline fair/foul balls that are headed over the fence, right?

It's not for the generic fly ball - if you're using this mechanic on the generic fly ball (or even the generic home run), you've misread the intent and you ARE going to miss people missing bases.

PS - who is cutting corners on a fly ball? They will have to be TAGGING UP, won't they?

[MrB]

Guys,

This is nothing new, remember watch ball, glance at runners. A lot of umpires time their pivot so that it happens just befor ethe B?R gets to the bag. As for trouble balls, I have used this new mechanic for years with no problems. What is more important a touch of first or getting a home run ball right with a wierd fence?

Did the ball bounce over or behind?

[LMan]

Originally posted by MrB
What is more important a touch of first or getting a home run ball right with a wierd fence?

[/B]

Fair/foul, then catch/no catch!

[Justme]

Originally posted by irefky

I use the U thing, the "U" is an imaginary "U" that comes from position 7, looping in front of 2nd base and going into position 9. I hope I have not lost anyone. Anything on the foul side of 7 or 9 the PU will have it as the BU will watch the runners' activity. Of course any ball hit inside of the area, BU will cover and PU will watch the runner.

This is fed, 2 man crew. How many times are you guys in Ca going to be told, he did not touch the base. What will be your response? We don't look at that anymore? Or, it's not important. I am just thinking about what will happen. Has that been spoken about? Any others have any questions or concerns about this?

Irefky:

I guess that you can use your "U thing" and I'll continue to use "The all eyes on the ball" thing as long as my HS association requires me to do so :-)

I think what you failed to read in my explanation on how the mechanic works is that it is not used on all fly balls. Let me repeat a portion of my post to better help you understand:
"On any fly ball down a foul line which has a chance to leave the field or any fly ball which may bounce over an outfield fence, all umpires on the crew are to watch the flight of the ball............On this type of play, the watching of runners touching bases is secondary". "With chain link fences, and short foul poles, it is often very difficult for an umpire to determine if the ball left the field in flight or bounced over a fence, or left the field in fair or foul territory. The “all eyes” concept will often be of great help in getting this tough play correct".

We CA umpires are not the only ones using this mechanic and we did not invent it.

[Rich]

Originally posted by btman
every year we get something new from the Left Coast and I never have used any of it. I guess they have a lot of time to think up things like this meckanic, it makes no sense to me.

You've dismissed this, then, without thinking about it.

If I have a ball hit high towards a foul pole, I'm thrilled if one of my partners in the middle can help me in case I lose the ball. Again, read the mechanic -- it's not used on EVERY fly ball. If it is, it's a training issue. And cutting corners would be useful on one that might bounce over the fence (but doesn't) if all umpires are fixated on the ball.

[irefky]

Originally posted by Justme

Irefky:

I guess that you can use your "U thing" and I'll continue to use "The all eyes on the ball" thing as long as my HS association requires me to do so :-)

I think what you failed to read in my explanation on how the mechanic works is that it is not used on all fly balls. Let me repeat a portion of my post to better help you understand:
"On any fly ball down a foul line which has a chance to leave the field or any fly ball which may bounce over an outfield fence, all umpires on the crew are to watch the flight of the ball............On this type of play, the watching of runners touching bases is secondary". "With chain link fences, and short foul poles, it is often very difficult for an umpire to determine if the ball left the field in flight or bounced over a fence, or left the field in fair or foul territory. The “all eyes” concept will often be of great help in getting this tough play correct".

We CA umpires are not the only ones using this mechanic and we did not invent it.

...and I respect that. It is not that big of a deal if "all eyes" is on the "big" fly ball is hit down the line with bases loaded, and no eyes is on the runners who are preparing to tag who needs a couple of runs to win the game.

"I am sure no one is looking at the base runners anyway, they are all watching the "big" fly ball to see if it goes over the fence. Just how can you as a PU be able to rule 300+feet away over your partner who has ran 1/2 way out in the OF? Is his "eyes" not going to pick that up?

I agree with the down the line mechanic as a PU, but "all eyes" is a tough one. I don't mean to sound like I want to argue. I am sure the folks in CA has thought this through and feel it's the way to go. Which other states are using this mechanic?

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Justme

With chain link fences, and short foul poles, it is often very difficult for an umpire to determine if the ball left the field in flight or bounced over a fence, or left the field in fair or foul territory. The “all eyes” concept will often be of great help in getting this tough play correct.

That's a problem with the FIELD and not the umpires. Using your example suppose there was a line shot down the the left field line that Bounced over / (under) the fence. If your partner in A was the late Bob Hayes, he couldn't help you.

Another poster made a good comment. It's the LEFT Coast at it again. It's like the Coffee Surveys. One Survey says it';s ok and one says it's bad for the heart.

Once the coaches / players KNOW that BOTH umpires are watching the ball, get ready for the game to resemble a farce. Someone has to watch the action in the infield, otherwise players will take advantage, cut corners, or a defensive player Obstructing a runner.

In a 2 Person crew one has to be responsible for the ball and the other watches the runner. If you have 3 of you then you have some Lee-way. When and if the 2 Person System is changed by either the PBUC or the videos by say Gerry Davis, will they hold credence.

I'm from the East Coast and the Mechanic remains the same. California is different in more ways than one.


Pete Booth

[Justme]

Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by Justme

With chain link fences, and short foul poles, it is often very difficult for an umpire to determine if the ball left the field in flight or bounced over a fence, or left the field in fair or foul territory. The “all eyes” concept will often be of great help in getting this tough play correct.

That's a problem with the FIELD and not the umpires. Using your example suppose there was a line shot down the the left field line that Bounced over / (under) the fence. If your partner in A was the late Bob Hayes, he couldn't help you.

Another poster made a good comment. It's the LEFT Coast at it again. It's like the Coffee Surveys. One Survey says it';s ok and one says it's bad for the heart.

Once the coaches / players KNOW that BOTH umpires are watching the ball, get ready for the game to resemble a farce. Someone has to watch the action in the infield, otherwise players will take advantage, cut corners, or a defensive player Obstructing a runner.

In a 2 Person crew one has to be responsible for the ball and the other watches the runner. If you have 3 of you then you have some Lee-way. When and if the 2 Person System is changed by either the PBUC or the videos by say Gerry Davis, will they hold credence.

I'm from the East Coast and the Mechanic remains the same. California is different in more ways than one.


Pete Booth

It's not my example, it's the CBUA's example. I figure since my association is a member and they adopted the CBUA's suggested mechanic I'll do it their way... if I want to work for them.

Luckily this situation doesn't happen very often but if they want me to watch the ball along with my partner(s) when it does happen, then watch the ball I shall.

I only use this mechanic when working HS baseball, everything else I do it the old fashion way, the Right Coast way(?)

Yea, the Left Coast is different...... it is usually leading the way..... you'll all catch up sooner or later :-)