Association of Minor League Umpires

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by PWL

They didn't go on strike. They had what was supposed to be an enmass resignation. Some failed to get theirs in the mail. Plus, these aren't the same umpires that so called "crossed the picket line". Things change, times change.

Your facts are wrong. Check the dates and come back when you know what you're talking about.

Strike in 1979; walk out in 1984, just before the playoffs.

The mass resignation? Summer, 1999, effective 2 September.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by PWL

Was Richie Phillips union chief the whole time. By that I mean in 1979 and 1984? Cut a brother some slack. I'm not a mind reader.

But you are supposed to be a reader, no? When you make elementary mistakes like this, you certainly lose some of whatever credibility you ever had.

Cut YOU some slack? You "corrected" me with bogus information. You should remember there are some who post here who are pretty knowledgeable about baseball. I am one of them.

The answer to your question is "Yes."

[socalblue1]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
I may be way of base on this so forgive me if I don't have a thorough understanding of what transpired. When the MLB umpires negotiations with the WBC to work those games hit an impass and broke down alltogether, why did the MiLB umpires decide to not support their bretheren and take the games for less money? It would seem to me that if the AMLU want's to take a stance for their members and ask others not to work their games, they've set a double standard by undercutting the MLB umpires by stepping in and agreeing to work the WBC.


Tim.

Tim,

The AAA umpires that are MLB fill-in's are working the games. MLB controls what they do doing spring training under a different agreement. If these guys had refused it would not have been good for them ....

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by PWL
I never corrected anybody. I read the part about Richie Phillips, and I naturally assumed they were speaking of 1999. Had I known Richie Phillips had been union chief in 1979 and 1984, I wouldn't have thought any different of it. Good to know if I ever get in a tough game of Trivial Pursuit.

Everybody has their own ideas about this strike/lockout or whatever it will be. Personally, if I was a member of the AMLU I wouldn't concern myself of what people think and say on these forums. Believe me, they won't have a say in what goes in these labor negotiations. They don't pay dues or vote. You can't account for everyone and everything.

Now, I understand their plight and the cause behind it. I support anyones' right to better themself, as long as they do it the right way.

BTW-Your supposed to be a reader, too. I didn't quote you. That's the problem with this forum. You have to think alike to have "credibility". I been out there with guys that have done it 20 or 30 years, and their judgement is something to behold sometimes. I'll earn my credibility on the diamond.

Just so you know. I don't agree with your interpertation that it isn't interference if a coach grabs a player and shoves him back to base he misses on a home run. Even if it is a dead ball, it deprives the defense of a chance to appeal.

There you go again, not reading carefully. I don't make interpretations. I never have.

All I do is explain what the language means. The FED (and you, apparently) is not worried that the book does not condone calling coach's interference during a dead ball.

That's not an interpretation; that's a fact.

The FED says: We mean that the coach can aid a runner during a dead ball only when it doesn't help the runner to leave or return to a base.

Now that is an interpretation, and I have no quarrel with the FED making it.

But I won't let them get away with saying the "rule" prohibits it.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally posted by socalblue1

Tim,

The AAA umpires that are MLB fill-in's are working the games. MLB controls what they do doing spring training under a different agreement. If these guys had refused it would not have been good for them ....

You seem close to the situation, so I'll grant you some credibility here. If those same guys take those games but walk out from their seasonal assignments, they are hypocrites. The only reason Drake, et al are taking those assignments is because theyarethisclose to not having to worry about MiLB any longer. If they can shine and a WUA guy goes down, they have a chance to shine and jump to a bigger, better world. I better not see any letters with their names on them. This is a classic example of "Do as I say, not as I do." If you are strong enough to stand for your rights, why would you tread on anothers'?

The clock is ticking and these guys know it. Do some reserach about how the umpire development program in the Minors had to let go of their own staff over the years due to budget cuts. Evaluators, administrators and field guys all worked for peanuts and lost jobs when times got tough. The front office guys don't give too much heed to the boys in blue or the men who guide them. It's a fact of life that is becoming apparent a little too late for 200 guys. Circle the wagons and go for a moderate increase - save the season and your dreams. You only get one shot at life guys, make the most of it or you'll be an old umpire who wishes he made more of it. I'm done being the heavy here. I wish you luck and hope that MiLB blinks soon. We are a couple weeks away from the first local games and I'm getting itchy. I know that you are too.

[fromthe757]

WWTB, I have read many of your posts. You make some sense. But you seem to be mistaken about what the AMLU has asked for as far as salary. You have said multiple times that they should look for a "moderate" increase. Is 100/month "moderate"? That's what they were offered. When negotiations start, one side comes in from the high side, one from the low, then they SHOULD work to something in the middle. The AMLU has come down on everything. MiLB has not come up to meet in the middle. The AMLU has not asked for any HUGE increase in salary. They have asked for a "moderate" increase, and MiLB refuses to acknowledge that it is deserved.

That's all I've got for now.

[mcrowder]

Carl, I don't like PWL any more than the next guy... but he was not responding to or correcting YOU. He was responding to the same person YOU responded to. His remarks were wrong, but in all honesty I made the same assumption - that the person you and he were responding to was referring to 1999. The assumption by you that the poster was referring to 1979 or 1984 may or may not be correct - who knows what he meant. Your information is helpful and additional, but your attacks on PWL, in this singular case, are unwarranted.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Carl, I don't like PWL any more than the next guy... but he was not responding to or correcting YOU. He was responding to the same person YOU responded to. His remarks were wrong, but in all honesty I made the same assumption - that the person you and he were responding to was referring to 1999. The assumption by you that the poster was referring to 1979 or 1984 may or may not be correct - who knows what he meant. Your information is helpful and additional, but your attacks on PWL, in this singular case, are unwarranted.

Ok, point taken. Let me go back a couple of days where an attack would be warranted. (grin)

Oh, the one directly above PWL was Pete Booth. I've known Pete a long time. He certainly did not mix up his facts.

[Thump]

I think it's funny how some of you feel as though the AMLU is uninformed and is leading everyone down the wrong path, while you know exactly what they should do.

I'm going to bet that the AMLU knows more about the situation than any of us. I'm not going to second guess them. As far as MiLB umpires asking us not to work their games...how can you blame them for that? That's not a last resort or a desperate cry because they know they are in a bad position. It's just what anybody would do. If you go on strike, you don't want people to take your job.

Shame on the AMLU for sending out a uniform letter with information on it to inform other umpires of what is going on. How dare they?!? I mean...they would much better be served just ignoring us, and doing their own thing.

Minor League Umpires are less of apprentices than NCAA umpires are. They aren't getting paid to learn a craft or trade. They hardly get any evaluation or training. They go out there, work this butts off, and learn from each other and studying on their own. They don't get to work with the Masters (MLB umpires) until they are in AAA and then deemed worthy.

Maybe some D1 officials could make good MiLB umpires...but those guys aren't going to fill in. They are going to work thier NCAA games because they pay better.

Oh and by the way...fill in umpires do get meals after the game...the same meals the AMLU guys do. Fill in guys also do get a per-diem. It's included in their fee. That's why the check they get is greater than a MiLB guy's salary per game. They don't get paid mileage...but they are supposed to be locals. MiLB guys don't get paid to go from the Hotel they are staying at to the park either. Just to go from city to city. Plus almost every MiLB guy i've come in contact with, even just to go WATCH their games, has taken me out for dinner and drinks afterwards, even though I make more money than them...and THEY REFUSE to let me pay.

MiLB guys that I know do care about us. They all started out where we are...they all worked HS baseball and a lot worked some college baseball before they got where they are now. All the MiLB guys in my area still go to association meetings, pay their dues, and help out during our clinics FOR FREE! And every guy I have talked to has said they aren't going to take games from us. One guy told me he is just going to go evaluate local HS umpires, again FOR FREE, so he can help out his association any way he can.

This is just my viewpoint on this, and what I have seen and experienced. If some of you have seen or experienced different, then that is okay. But what I am saying aren't just my opinions, they are facts that I have observed.

Take it for what it is worth. Argue with what I say if you want, but I don't see how you can argue with what I have observed from these guys. It's just how it is.

[millhouse76]

This is Jason Millsap here.

First and formost, I would like to thank Carl for posting this for me, and all of you for your time to read it and your consideration.

I have read through the replies here briefly and wanted to answer one question real quick, as it is 1:30 at night, and I just got in from a four hour road trip after a double header.

As Carl stated, I have always worked amateur games in the time before reporting to spring training. Before getting into the game, I was an amateur umpire for five years, and was already working at the college level before attending umpire school.

As a union, we have discussed in depth, us working amateur games. We have decided, and mandated that we will only work games as a last minute fill in to help out assignors. We will not attempt to pick up games to fill out our schedule while we are on strike, should the need to strike arise. I repeat, we will not take your games.

Our theory on this is simple. If we are going to ask you for your support in not taking our games, we can not, and will not take yours. Plain and simple. If you know of a MiLB umpire who takes games, please contact me personally, and I will look into the situation, and help you out as much as possible.

As a note, I will let you know how I handled this situation personally. I recevied my schedule through March 15th like I have for the last four years. Any dates after that point, I will only accept games that need me to work them due to last minute schedule changes, or cancellations. I will not take games that could be filled by other amateur umpires. I assure you that, and for those that know me, I stand by my word.

After spending the early parts of my career initially learning how to umpire, and the game at the amateur level, I have made many friends at the amatuer level. Many of these I would consider to be some of my best friends. I still have a deep connection, and concern for the game at the amateur level. I take every opportunity afforded to me to give back to amateur umpires, whether it be through watching guys work, speaking engagements, or clinics. I have been given the opportunity to learn many things that most guys don't, and the more of this I can pass on, the better off the game is due to better umpiring.

I will read through the rest of these posts later tomorrow after I have rested and have more time. Until then, if you need to, please feel free to contact me with any questions, or concerns.

I thank you for your time, and your support. I assure you, we will not be taking any of your games at the amateur level due to our inopportunity to work, should it happen. We have been preparing for this possibility both as a union, and individually. We will not hurt your schedule, and hope to resolve our issues and continue on with our careers.

This can only be achieved through your support.

Thanks

Jason Millsap
seeitcallit "at" earthlink.net

[MrB]

It was stated that the AMLU enetered into the same type of behavior that they are asking us not to, and I want to ask Jason to clarrify why they did what they did and how is it different.

How was the AMLU replacing guys in '99 different, yes they resigned, but you knew what they were trying to do and the AMLU hurt the MLB guys fight for a better situation for themselves.

Now, they AMLU guys are going to work for less than the MLB guys asked for to do the World Classic. Isn't that being a Scab of sorts, doing the same job for less?

The AMLU should probably just ingnore us am. guys, but if they are asking for our support, shouldn't they try to clarrify these types of questions?

I realize some will say they had no choice, but they did, you always do.

[socalblue1]

Originally posted by MrB
It was stated that the AMLU enetered into the same type of behavior that they are asking us not to, and I want to ask Jason to clarrify why they did what they did and how is it different.

How was the AMLU replacing guys in '99 different, yes they resigned, but you knew what they were trying to do and the AMLU hurt the MLB guys fight for a better situation for themselves.

Now, they AMLU guys are going to work for less than the MLB guys asked for to do the World Classic. Isn't that being a Scab of sorts, doing the same job for less?

The AMLU should probably just ingnore us am. guys, but if they are asking for our support, shouldn't they try to clarrify these types of questions?

I realize some will say they had no choice, but they did, you always do.

1. In 1999 THERE WAS NO AMLU. MiLB umpires were not represented by AMLU until 200/2001.

2. MLB & MiLB had a contract to supply AAA umpires for fill-in duties. The was NO STRIKE - the MLB umpires resigned, leaving the AAA umpires no choice - work or be terminated by MiLB.

3. Others have posted about the WBC. MLB umpires (WUA) could not reach an agreement with MLB. AMLU did reach an agreement witn MLB to staff the small number of games (This has been in the works for quite some time).

[MrB]

Originally posted by socalblue1

1. In 1999 THERE WAS NO AMLU. MiLB umpires were not represented by AMLU until 200/2001.

2. MLB & MiLB had a contract to supply AAA umpires for fill-in duties. The was NO STRIKE - the MLB umpires resigned, leaving the AAA umpires no choice - work or be terminated by MiLB.

3. Others have posted about the WBC. MLB umpires (WUA) could not reach an agreement with MLB. AMLU did reach an agreement witn MLB to staff the small number of games (This has been in the works for quite some time).

Your point number 2 doesn't address the issue of the MiLB guys knew what the WUA was doing with the resignation strategy, and they decided to CYA instead of unite with their bretheren, that helped them so much and did all sorts of stuff for them, and all the things the MiLB guys do for Am. Umpires. Just an observation!

[millhouse76]

Originally posted by MrB
It was stated that the AMLU enetered into the same type of behavior that they are asking us not to, and I want to ask Jason to clarrify why they did what they did and how is it different.

How was the AMLU replacing guys in '99 different, yes they resigned, but you knew what they were trying to do and the AMLU hurt the MLB guys fight for a better situation for themselves.

Now, they AMLU guys are going to work for less than the MLB guys asked for to do the World Classic. Isn't that being a Scab of sorts, doing the same job for less?

The AMLU should probably just ingnore us am. guys, but if they are asking for our support, shouldn't they try to clarrify these types of questions?

I realize some will say they had no choice, but they did, you always do.

MrB:

As stated, there was no AMLU in 1999, and there was no strike either. Here is where it get's tricky now. Less than half of the ML umpires in 1999 agreed with the attempted resignation, if you look at the numbers. Are you really scabbing, when a majority of the people involved did not do their part in the resignation. Not saying that I agree with how it all went down at the Major League level in 1999, but there was really no direction to what was attempted. Just to help you understand, there is no animosity between the guys that came up and worked in 1999, and the guys that attempted to resign. If there is animosity, it is between those who did, and didn't resign.

As far as the WBC, I really hate when people make assumptions based on what they have heard. Here is the way it went down, and if anyone else tells you different, they are lying.

The WBC was in negotiation with the WUA. Throughout these talks, the WUA was in contact with the AMLU as to their progress. We told the WUA that we would not talk to the WBC while they were at the table with them. When the WUA decided that they would not work, and told us that we could, we then sat down with the WBC as a Union.

We did not stab our brethren, but instead worked with them, and their blessing, to get to where we are in the WBC. Here is a question for you? Do you really think that the ML guys wanted to work the WBC for less than they get during the season, right before they start a six month season?

[Edited by millhouse76 on Mar 2nd, 2006 at 02:33 PM]

[Clint Lawson]

What is wrong with a guy like john coons taking a high school game. He pays his dues just like the next guy. He has paid his dues for years and not worked any games. What makes him any different than anybody in that group. If he didn't pay dues and just off the street called and wanted a game that would be wrong. But the minor league guys (like myself and john) that pay there dues and teach clinics for free should be able to work these games. I am still working college games myself. I dont have a schedule. My assigner sends out a mass email to the whole group when a game is turned back to him and if you can work you respond. If he sends me the game back i take. If someone had not turned back that game it would not be there for me to work. I don't feel bad about working those games at all. And the guys work I with like to work with me and support the amlu. Every college umpire i have worked with has been in support of what we are doing. Do you guys think it is wrong that i am still working college games in my area? I paid the same fee that everyone else in the group paid.

Clint Lawson
[email protected]
Carolina League