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Wed Mar 01, 2006, 02:26am
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The AAA umpires that are MLB fill-in's are working the games. MLB controls what they do doing spring training under a different agreement. If these guys had refused it would not have been good for them .... 
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Wed Mar 01, 2006, 04:27am
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Re: GO BACK AND READ
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All I do is explain what the language means. The FED (and you, apparently) is not worried that the book does not condone calling coach's interference during a dead ball. That's not an interpretation; that's a fact. The FED says: We mean that the coach can aid a runner during a dead ball only when it doesn't help the runner to leave or return to a base. Now that is an interpretation, and I have no quarrel with the FED making it. But I won't let them get away with saying the "rule" prohibits it.
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Wed Mar 01, 2006, 07:28am
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The clock is ticking and these guys know it. Do some reserach about how the umpire development program in the Minors had to let go of their own staff over the years due to budget cuts. Evaluators, administrators and field guys all worked for peanuts and lost jobs when times got tough. The front office guys don't give too much heed to the boys in blue or the men who guide them. It's a fact of life that is becoming apparent a little too late for 200 guys. Circle the wagons and go for a moderate increase - save the season and your dreams. You only get one shot at life guys, make the most of it or you'll be an old umpire who wishes he made more of it. I'm done being the heavy here. I wish you luck and hope that MiLB blinks soon. We are a couple weeks away from the first local games and I'm getting itchy. I know that you are too.
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. ~Naguib Mahfouz
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Wed Mar 01, 2006, 09:01am
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WWTB, I have read many of your posts. You make some sense. But you seem to be mistaken about what the AMLU has asked for as far as salary. You have said multiple times that they should look for a "moderate" increase. Is 100/month "moderate"? That's what they were offered. When negotiations start, one side comes in from the high side, one from the low, then they SHOULD work to something in the middle. The AMLU has come down on everything. MiLB has not come up to meet in the middle. The AMLU has not asked for any HUGE increase in salary. They have asked for a "moderate" increase, and MiLB refuses to acknowledge that it is deserved.
That's all I've got for now.
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Wed Mar 01, 2006, 10:44am
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Carl, I don't like PWL any more than the next guy... but he was not responding to or correcting YOU. He was responding to the same person YOU responded to. His remarks were wrong, but in all honesty I made the same assumption - that the person you and he were responding to was referring to 1999. The assumption by you that the poster was referring to 1979 or 1984 may or may not be correct - who knows what he meant. Your information is helpful and additional, but your attacks on PWL, in this singular case, are unwarranted.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Wed Mar 01, 2006, 01:31pm
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Oh, the one directly above PWL was Pete Booth. I've known Pete a long time. He certainly did not mix up his facts.
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Wed Mar 01, 2006, 04:28pm
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I think it's funny how some of you feel as though the AMLU is uninformed and is leading everyone down the wrong path, while you know exactly what they should do.
I'm going to bet that the AMLU knows more about the situation than any of us. I'm not going to second guess them. As far as MiLB umpires asking us not to work their games...how can you blame them for that? That's not a last resort or a desperate cry because they know they are in a bad position. It's just what anybody would do. If you go on strike, you don't want people to take your job. Shame on the AMLU for sending out a uniform letter with information on it to inform other umpires of what is going on. How dare they?!? I mean...they would much better be served just ignoring us, and doing their own thing. Minor League Umpires are less of apprentices than NCAA umpires are. They aren't getting paid to learn a craft or trade. They hardly get any evaluation or training. They go out there, work this butts off, and learn from each other and studying on their own. They don't get to work with the Masters (MLB umpires) until they are in AAA and then deemed worthy. Maybe some D1 officials could make good MiLB umpires...but those guys aren't going to fill in. They are going to work thier NCAA games because they pay better. Oh and by the way...fill in umpires do get meals after the game...the same meals the AMLU guys do. Fill in guys also do get a per-diem. It's included in their fee. That's why the check they get is greater than a MiLB guy's salary per game. They don't get paid mileage...but they are supposed to be locals. MiLB guys don't get paid to go from the Hotel they are staying at to the park either. Just to go from city to city. Plus almost every MiLB guy i've come in contact with, even just to go WATCH their games, has taken me out for dinner and drinks afterwards, even though I make more money than them...and THEY REFUSE to let me pay. MiLB guys that I know do care about us. They all started out where we are...they all worked HS baseball and a lot worked some college baseball before they got where they are now. All the MiLB guys in my area still go to association meetings, pay their dues, and help out during our clinics FOR FREE! And every guy I have talked to has said they aren't going to take games from us. One guy told me he is just going to go evaluate local HS umpires, again FOR FREE, so he can help out his association any way he can. This is just my viewpoint on this, and what I have seen and experienced. If some of you have seen or experienced different, then that is okay. But what I am saying aren't just my opinions, they are facts that I have observed. Take it for what it is worth. Argue with what I say if you want, but I don't see how you can argue with what I have observed from these guys. It's just how it is.
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 02:49am
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This is Jason Millsap here.
First and formost, I would like to thank Carl for posting this for me, and all of you for your time to read it and your consideration. I have read through the replies here briefly and wanted to answer one question real quick, as it is 1:30 at night, and I just got in from a four hour road trip after a double header. As Carl stated, I have always worked amateur games in the time before reporting to spring training. Before getting into the game, I was an amateur umpire for five years, and was already working at the college level before attending umpire school. As a union, we have discussed in depth, us working amateur games. We have decided, and mandated that we will only work games as a last minute fill in to help out assignors. We will not attempt to pick up games to fill out our schedule while we are on strike, should the need to strike arise. I repeat, we will not take your games. Our theory on this is simple. If we are going to ask you for your support in not taking our games, we can not, and will not take yours. Plain and simple. If you know of a MiLB umpire who takes games, please contact me personally, and I will look into the situation, and help you out as much as possible. As a note, I will let you know how I handled this situation personally. I recevied my schedule through March 15th like I have for the last four years. Any dates after that point, I will only accept games that need me to work them due to last minute schedule changes, or cancellations. I will not take games that could be filled by other amateur umpires. I assure you that, and for those that know me, I stand by my word. After spending the early parts of my career initially learning how to umpire, and the game at the amateur level, I have made many friends at the amatuer level. Many of these I would consider to be some of my best friends. I still have a deep connection, and concern for the game at the amateur level. I take every opportunity afforded to me to give back to amateur umpires, whether it be through watching guys work, speaking engagements, or clinics. I have been given the opportunity to learn many things that most guys don't, and the more of this I can pass on, the better off the game is due to better umpiring. I will read through the rest of these posts later tomorrow after I have rested and have more time. Until then, if you need to, please feel free to contact me with any questions, or concerns. I thank you for your time, and your support. I assure you, we will not be taking any of your games at the amateur level due to our inopportunity to work, should it happen. We have been preparing for this possibility both as a union, and individually. We will not hurt your schedule, and hope to resolve our issues and continue on with our careers. This can only be achieved through your support. Thanks Jason Millsap seeitcallit "at" earthlink.net
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 11:56am
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It was stated that the AMLU enetered into the same type of behavior that they are asking us not to, and I want to ask Jason to clarrify why they did what they did and how is it different.
How was the AMLU replacing guys in '99 different, yes they resigned, but you knew what they were trying to do and the AMLU hurt the MLB guys fight for a better situation for themselves. Now, they AMLU guys are going to work for less than the MLB guys asked for to do the World Classic. Isn't that being a Scab of sorts, doing the same job for less? The AMLU should probably just ingnore us am. guys, but if they are asking for our support, shouldn't they try to clarrify these types of questions? I realize some will say they had no choice, but they did, you always do.
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 01:05pm
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2. MLB & MiLB had a contract to supply AAA umpires for fill-in duties. The was NO STRIKE - the MLB umpires resigned, leaving the AAA umpires no choice - work or be terminated by MiLB. 3. Others have posted about the WBC. MLB umpires (WUA) could not reach an agreement with MLB. AMLU did reach an agreement witn MLB to staff the small number of games (This has been in the works for quite some time).
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 02:20pm
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 02:30pm
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As stated, there was no AMLU in 1999, and there was no strike either. Here is where it get's tricky now. Less than half of the ML umpires in 1999 agreed with the attempted resignation, if you look at the numbers. Are you really scabbing, when a majority of the people involved did not do their part in the resignation. Not saying that I agree with how it all went down at the Major League level in 1999, but there was really no direction to what was attempted. Just to help you understand, there is no animosity between the guys that came up and worked in 1999, and the guys that attempted to resign. If there is animosity, it is between those who did, and didn't resign. As far as the WBC, I really hate when people make assumptions based on what they have heard. Here is the way it went down, and if anyone else tells you different, they are lying. The WBC was in negotiation with the WUA. Throughout these talks, the WUA was in contact with the AMLU as to their progress. We told the WUA that we would not talk to the WBC while they were at the table with them. When the WUA decided that they would not work, and told us that we could, we then sat down with the WBC as a Union. We did not stab our brethren, but instead worked with them, and their blessing, to get to where we are in the WBC. Here is a question for you? Do you really think that the ML guys wanted to work the WBC for less than they get during the season, right before they start a six month season? [Edited by millhouse76 on Mar 2nd, 2006 at 02:33 PM]
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 03:16pm
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This is where it gets tricky, ehhhhhh?
So because they had strife within their ranks it made it ok to come in and help break what they were attempting to do, Ohhhhhh now I see! I hope every member of the AMLU is on the same page, as well as the guys that are finishing up at Coco. I mean if PBUC tells them they have to work or they will be released, just like they told the AAA guys in '99, then it is ok for those guys to work, right? As for your question to me, it is a dangerous one. I don't pretend to know what MLB guys are thinking, but if you are telling me that it is ok for you to work the games for cheaper than the MLB guys will do it, then is it ok for Am. guys to work games for cheaper than you will do it? I know, I know, you have the MLB guys blessing, that is right. So why don't we have yours? Big brother shares with little brother, but little brother won't share with baby brother! I see now.
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 03:32pm
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I feel that you are trying to turn this into an argument, and I am not willing to do that. If I can not get you to understand or agree with us, so be it. I know that there are many others out there who feel like you. As far as the new guys go, I understand totally if they are told to work, and will hold nothing against them. They attended umpire school, and went through the process. They are not a part of the union until they are hired by PBUC, and then membership in the union is optional, as we were formed in a "Right to Work" state. They would have to make a decision, that in there position seems easy. They either work for PBUC, or side with us, and never get a job, regardless of what happens with the union. They must take the job, as this is the whole reason that they have done what they have since the first of the year. They are not members of the Union. As far as the WBC, I guess you will not understand the situation, so I will try to explain it one more time. The WUA attempted to negotiate with the WBC, at which time they decided that they did not want to work. The walked away from negotiations with no ill feelings. For us and MiLB, we have not walked away from negotiations, and there are definitely ill feelings. We are still bargaining for improved labor conditions, and a four year contract. By you crossing, you would undermine out attempts to continue negotiating. By us working the WBC, we are undermining nothing that the WUA attempted, they tried, did not like the offer, and then passed it on to us. The reason that you do not have our blessing is we are still bargaining, and any help to MiLB from others, would possibly hurt that. There is a theory that fill-ins could help our situation. It is a different game. It is no longer a hobby at this level, but a business. A business in which you are dealing with many personalities, and a lot of money. Read between the lines here (egos). Most of the people involved on their side are worried about themselves. The team theory falls away when you have the movement that there is in MiLB between levels. Minor mistakes in an amateur game turn into huge ones at this level. Amplified by the number of cameras and eyes at the game. If you think the two levels are even close, you are dead wrong. This is not you average JUCO, or D1 game. There is a huge difference in the pitching, speed of the game, and approach to playing it. Some of these become extremely evident once you step on the field. Yes, short season could be handled relatively easy, it's when you move up the ladder that it gets tougher quick. Sorry, I am starting to ramble. I hope you understand a little more. If you have any other questions, please continue, as I am sure you will. Thanks for your time. I hope that makes it easier for you to understand the WBC situation.
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Thu Mar 02, 2006, 03:35pm
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By the way, in '99, the MiLB guys did not break what they MLB guys were attempting to do. They broke it, and at that point there was no way to recover, just to hope that guys could get their job back. A resignation is a resignation. I know that if we strike, we are subject to replacement, and have weighed that risk. I truly hope that it does not come to that, and we can work something out.
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