Association of Minor League Umpires

[briancurtin]

im not really involved in these threads, but its good to see that at least one person decided to post as themselves from that side of the table. the anonymous coward attacks got old after about .4 seconds.

note that im trusting Clint Lawson to actually be the real Clint Lawson

[Sal Giaco]

Originally Posted by Clint Lawson

Do you guys think it is wrong that i am still working college games in my area?

No but I am concerned if this strike goes longer than expected, that it will conflict with Independent Pro ball in the summer. I know that it can get fairly competitive for those assignments because it's probably the best baseball for amateur umpires to work - especially during summer ball.

If, (worst case scenario), the strike continues into late May, June..., I hope the MiLB Umpires extend the same courtesy of not working the Independent League games as I did by not working AAA games as a fill-in/scab.

[fmsc]

I belong to the high school association that is proud to have Clint Lawson as a member. He is one of our youngest members but is an invaluable resource. He has generously donated his time to share his professional training and experience for clinics on mechanics and rules at no charge to our membership. Even during his Minor League seasons he has responded by cell phone or email to questions. He pays dues ,is very active in the organization of our association and has been nominated for election as an officer. Yes , he works some high school games and myself and others have benefited from the games we have worked with him. I am a better umpire thanks to Clint and 5 or 6 other MiLB guys that I have spent time with on the field and in clinics. I have not been asked but I will support these guys by turning down any offer of MiLB games. And also by welcoming as partners those who choose to participate in the manner Clint has at our local amateur level.

By the way I called Clint this morning with a question and also confirmed for myself that the earlier poster was indeed the real Clint Lawson.

[D-Man]

Pathed????????

[MrB]

This is where it gets tricky, ehhhhhh?

So because they had strife within their ranks it made it ok to come in and help break what they were attempting to do, Ohhhhhh now I see!

I hope every member of the AMLU is on the same page, as well as the guys that are finishing up at Coco. I mean if PBUC tells them they have to work or they will be released, just like they told the AAA guys in '99, then it is ok for those guys to work, right?

As for your question to me, it is a dangerous one. I don't pretend to know what MLB guys are thinking, but if you are telling me that it is ok for you to work the games for cheaper than the MLB guys will do it, then is it ok for Am. guys to work games for cheaper than you will do it? I know, I know, you have the MLB guys blessing, that is right. So why don't we have yours? Big brother shares with little brother, but little brother won't share with baby brother! I see now.

[millhouse76]

Originally posted by MrB
This is where it gets tricky, ehhhhhh?

So because they had strife within their ranks it made it ok to come in and help break what they were attempting to do, Ohhhhhh now I see!

I hope every member of the AMLU is on the same page, as well as the guys that are finishing up at Coco. I mean if PBUC tells them they have to work or they will be released, just like they told the AAA guys in '99, then it is ok for those guys to work, right?

As for your question to me, it is a dangerous one. I don't pretend to know what MLB guys are thinking, but if you are telling me that it is ok for you to work the games for cheaper than the MLB guys will do it, then is it ok for Am. guys to work games for cheaper than you will do it? I know, I know, you have the MLB guys blessing, that is right. So why don't we have yours? Big brother shares with little brother, but little brother won't share with baby brother! I see now.

MrB:

I feel that you are trying to turn this into an argument, and I am not willing to do that. If I can not get you to understand or agree with us, so be it. I know that there are many others out there who feel like you.

As far as the new guys go, I understand totally if they are told to work, and will hold nothing against them. They attended umpire school, and went through the process. They are not a part of the union until they are hired by PBUC, and then membership in the union is optional, as we were formed in a "Right to Work" state. They would have to make a decision, that in there position seems easy. They either work for PBUC, or side with us, and never get a job, regardless of what happens with the union. They must take the job, as this is the whole reason that they have done what they have since the first of the year. They are not members of the Union.

As far as the WBC, I guess you will not understand the situation, so I will try to explain it one more time. The WUA attempted to negotiate with the WBC, at which time they decided that they did not want to work. The walked away from negotiations with no ill feelings. For us and MiLB, we have not walked away from negotiations, and there are definitely ill feelings. We are still bargaining for improved labor conditions, and a four year contract. By you crossing, you would undermine out attempts to continue negotiating. By us working the WBC, we are undermining nothing that the WUA attempted, they tried, did not like the offer, and then passed it on to us.

The reason that you do not have our blessing is we are still bargaining, and any help to MiLB from others, would possibly hurt that. There is a theory that fill-ins could help our situation. It is a different game. It is no longer a hobby at this level, but a business. A business in which you are dealing with many personalities, and a lot of money. Read between the lines here (egos). Most of the people involved on their side are worried about themselves. The team theory falls away when you have the movement that there is in MiLB between levels. Minor mistakes in an amateur game turn into huge ones at this level. Amplified by the number of cameras and eyes at the game. If you think the two levels are even close, you are dead wrong. This is not you average JUCO, or D1 game. There is a huge difference in the pitching, speed of the game, and approach to playing it. Some of these become extremely evident once you step on the field. Yes, short season could be handled relatively easy, it's when you move up the ladder that it gets tougher quick.

Sorry, I am starting to ramble. I hope you understand a little more. If you have any other questions, please continue, as I am sure you will.

Thanks for your time.

I hope that makes it easier for you to understand the WBC situation.

[millhouse76]

By the way, in '99, the MiLB guys did not break what they MLB guys were attempting to do. They broke it, and at that point there was no way to recover, just to hope that guys could get their job back. A resignation is a resignation. I know that if we strike, we are subject to replacement, and have weighed that risk. I truly hope that it does not come to that, and we can work something out.

[MrB]

I wish you guys the best of luck, but if it doesn't work out, just understand that to many it is just a game and it will be played with or without any single one of us. No hard feelings from me to who ever works them.

[millhouse76]

MrB,

Thanks. I understand your perspective. You are right, to many, it is just a game. To others it is a career, and a livelyhood. One that many sacrifices have been made for. All to see how unappreciated we are by our bosses, and the game. A game in which we are trusted to uphold the integrity of.

[Rich]

Originally posted by millhouse76
MrB,

Thanks. I understand your perspective. You are right, to many, it is just a game. To others it is a career, and a livelyhood. One that many sacrifices have been made for. All to see how unappreciated we are by our bosses, and the game. A game in which we are trusted to uphold the integrity of.

I understand you trying to protect your jobs and to make working conditions better, but please don't talk (your last sentence) as if you are doing something noble. You are an umpire, not the pillar holding the game up.

To me, a career is something you can do to make a living throughout your life. Once you get hired by MLB you have a career. Until then, it's something less, I'm afraid, and this is what MiLB is hanging its hat on.

[millhouse76]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I understand you trying to protect your jobs and to make working conditions better, but please don't talk (your last sentence) as if you are doing something noble. You are an umpire, not the pillar holding the game up.

To me, a career is something you can do to make a living throughout your life. Once you get hired by MLB you have a career. Until then, it's something less, I'm afraid, and this is what MiLB is hanging its hat on.

You are right, I am not the pillar of the game, but at almost all minor league baseball games, the umpires are the only paid representatives of the league, and the game, present. What exactly does that entail? You decide. Baseball is a game, that governs itself for the most part, but at a point, it need direction. As an example, intentionally throwing at a batter after he has pimped a home run. The game is governing itself, but something must be done to keep it from getting out of hand. This is were we come in. No we are not pillars, and that was not my intent above. We are crucial to the game, and have been trained for it at the professional level. Pay us accordingly for our expertise and time.

As far as a career. This is a career, by definition:

a. A chosen pursuit; a profession or occupation.
b. The general course or progression of one's working life or one's professional achievements:

Would you say that a person in AAA with 13 years of experience, had not persued, and been involved in a career?

You need not do something for your entire life for it to be considered a career, as you have stated. You are correct though, that is what MiLB is probably hanging their hat on.

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I tried to stay away... Two quotes for the price of one:

"Thanks. I understand your perspective. You are right, to many, it is just a game. To others it is a career, and a livelyhood. One that many sacrifices have been made for. All to see how unappreciated we are by our bosses, and the game. A game in which we are trusted to uphold the integrity of."

I agree with Rich. That is a pretty sanctimonious pose you are striking. The game is bigger than the player or umpire. The fact that you are asking others to not work those games in your stead is ironic. I thought that the game was so important. Don't the fans and players deserve the chance to see it played? Sure, I go to the park and watch the umpires, but not many others do. Kindly rephrase that positioning statement before it makes the press. You are there to do your job as arbiters, not to represent the league.

"Pay us according to our expertise and time."

They are paying you for your expertise and time! Your value to the MiLB is not as great as you assume. All of us believe that we should receive higher dividends for our investment. For the sake of argument though, why is your time more important than the guy who is struggling to make ends meet with his nine to five? He buys the best gear he can afford, attends the clinics and training to perform at his peak. He gets done working and sacrifices time with the kids and spouse, so he can earn a few extra dollars on the local ball field. He comes home tired as a dog and gets no benefit other than the check. His expertise may be equal to many in A or even AA ball. His time is lost to family and friends because of his passion and desire to keep his assignor happy. Shouldn't he be treated better? If he and a group of the best umpires in his area consciously decide to refuse to work more games, should they implore others not to scramble for those coveted contests?

Most everyone agrees that you should get paid more, but your arguments are becoming absurd. Conditions in the Minor League are better than many D1 facilities. I've changed in closets and at my car because they lacked respect for umpires locker room conditions. Did you pay for your equipment? If I bounce a guy at the beginning of the season, I don't worry about what his punishment was. If he acts up improperly, I'll do it again and again. The threats made on officials in the MiLB is no greater than what we are witnessing on the nightly news or VideoXposed of your choice.

Someone asked what sort of nominal increase is acceptable. If MiLB is offering $100 a month and (according to wire stories on ESPN, CBS and ABC) the union is asking for 25-35% increases it seems you may need to soften your resolve. If they have to lay off umpire field supervisors and staff, why would you think they can reach deeper for you? Again, I hope that they can toss $500 a month more to you but it may be unrealistic. Bargain for the next year and start proving your importance and worth. Otherwise, those GMs may start dialing the locals soon. That contract will look pretty inviting when you have to start bagging groceries to pay the mortgage. I've said it before - the dream ends when you turn your back. You'll never be satisfied even if you make the CWS every year. Take it from someone old enough to be your father and smart enough to know what happens when dreams are memories. Good luck with the little bit of time on the clock and I hope that you realize that some of us may speak hurtful words, but are really trying to get you to think. Umpires make few friends in the game. Listen to what those outside your comfort zone are telling you. Be careful giving it all up. Regret is a lifetime pursuit.

[Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Mar 2nd, 2006 at 07:09 PM]

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by millhouse76

This is Jason Millsap here

Hi Jason I have some questions that I would like some clarification on:

1. Why isn't there simply one union for ALL professional Umpires instead of having separate ones? Reason being that the guys now fortunate enough to be in the BIG leagues were at the minor level once in their careers. Also, which in my opinion would be a major stubbling block. Would the Major League Umpires take a little less to filter some more money down to the minor leagues.

I do not know the exact pay scales, but in what I have read, there is a HUGE difference between being the head of say Triple A and a "rookie" in the BIG Leagues.

Should there be that much of a monetary change from Minor League baseball to the PROS?

2. At what level of Minor League baseball do you have 3 person crews.

The reason I ask is that I live in Hudson Valley New York and am only 15 minutes from Dutchess Stadium the home of the Hudson Valley Rennigades an A affiliate of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. The cost is relatively inexpensive and my son enjoys the games. There are only 2 umpires for those games.

Therefore, does it go something like this

A ball - 2 person crews
AA ball and Triple A - 3 person crews.

I am a HS umpire and each year our association asks us if we would like 3 person crews. The problem, the FEES are not any different meaning we would have to take the same FEE and split it 3 ways instead of 2. The only exception is during State and Regional Finals in which the schools will pay for 3 officials.

Therefore, any thought of simply going to 2 person crews for all of minor league baseball with the exception of the playoffs or ultimately is it a detriment because if you do make to the next level you are not prepared.

Thank you

Pete Booth

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Originally posted by dontcallmeblue
"His expertise may be equal to many in A or even AA ball."

are you kidding me?

What was puzzling about that phrase? I can think of at least fifty guys in the Chicago area that have been to Pro school, work college baseball and any number of professional rules leagues. Most of those guys have been at it for fifteen or more years. Between them they have hundreds of hours of clinics and instruction. Are you telling me that a newbie out of pro school or even a guy with two years in, has more knowledge than one of these guys? Maybe I should borrow your wuote - Are you kidding me? An A level umpire works how many games in his 3-4 month season (be careful, I've been there and know)? Compare that to the journeyman who has a dozen years of college ball under his belt and your newbie is outclassed. Maybe his mechanics may look textbook, but his knowledge couldn't fit into the cup of one of those guys.

There are always exceptions, but I was using one specific example and you chose to generalize. I'm sorry, but you are way off on this one. There are plenty of guys out there that meet my criteria - they have put in the years instead of a few thousand at a winter camp. There are a few old timers here and any one of us could umpire rings around a newbie fresh out of pro school.

[dontcallmeblue]

Maybe I need to rephrase. The A ball part I have LESS of an issue with, but AA? Not a chance. I don't care how long you've been doing it at what level, it doesn't compare, game managment and consistency-wise. The LEAST experienced guy in AA is in his fourth year in pro ball, so he's probably worked, including spring training, oh, a min. of 500 professional games. Who's kidding who?