Partner problems

[UMP25]

Originally posted by midtnblu
uncaught 3rd strike

OK, we're about 3/4 of the way there.

[BigUmp56]

Originally posted by UMP25

OK, we're about 3/4 of the way there.

HBP?

Tim.

[midtnblu]

w/ 2 0uts and 1st base occupied ???

[SanDiegoSteve]

I remain blissfully unaware of a situation where the BU should take a swing/no swing call away from the PU. Perhaps if the PU is knocked out cold by a pitch? That is the only time I would want any unsolicited help.

As far as the original situation, with a new umpire, I would casually call him over between innings and let him know in a nice way to always wait to be asked for help by the umpire, and only by the umpire.

There is nothing at all wrong with schooling a newbie between innings. Many times, a new umpire will make numerous mistakes in which I don't want him repeating them for the rest of the game. I also sometimes can't remember all the mistakes after the game, so I would rather discuss them while they are fresh on my mind. As long as you do it in a casual, conversational manner, without pointing or gesturing, the should be no problem. New umpires are usually open to learning, and can handle constructive criticism.

[LMan]

Originally posted by midtnblu
w/ 2 0uts and 1st base occupied ???

I dont know about the BU calling a checkswing unsolicited, but the PU should immediately ask for an appeal to the BU without coaching input on a 2-strike, wildpitch/passed ball situation (because it could be ruled an uncaught 3d strike).

[jxt127]

Generally thinking I have things to do in that brief interval between innings. So if I want to speak to my partner it better be pretty darn important. In fact the only time I have was a partner who twice in the 1st inning got in position for the call and never made it. Psst P gotta make a visual and audible call or do something to let us know!

Can't do an appeal on a strike call. So we need a quick appeal when it's ball 4 with a runner on 1st base. The (apparently) forced runners need to know if they are at risk or not.

[BigUmp56]

PWL just brought up something that's always fun to discuss.

On a HBP do you yell.

* "Foul ball"

* "Dead ball."

* "Time."


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by UMP25

OK, we're about 3/4 of the way there.

Normal Mechanic:

PU waits to ask until defense asks.

Advanced Mechanic:

PU asks immediately when there's a check swing on an uncaught third strike and the batter can run (first open or two out).

Really Advanced Mechanic:

BU rules before being asked ONLY if it's a swing (if BU will agree with PU that it's not a swing, BU waits to be asked) on an uncaught third-strike when batter can run.

[UMP25]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Normal Mechanic:

PU waits to ask until defense asks.

Advanced Mechanic:

PU asks immediately when there's a check swing on an uncaught third strike and the batter can run (first open or two out).

Really Advanced Mechanic:

BU rules before being asked ONLY if it's a swing (if BU will agree with PU that it's not a swing, BU waits to be asked) on an uncaught third-strike when batter can run.

The situation I referred to is called a "voluntary strike."

As explained in 8.7 of the MLBUM:

Emphasis original:

In the situation where the third strike eludes the catcher on a half-swing and the batter-runner is entitled to run to first base, the appeal should be made to the base umpire instantly (without waiting for a request from the defense); but even if the appeal is not instant, the appropriate base umpire should immediately and voluntarily make a call of strike IF the base umpire is going to reverse the plate umpire's call. This will give the batter the immediate opportunity to run.

[RPatrino]

On a HBP, I yell "time". If a batted ball/pitched ball hits the batter, it is not automatically a "foul" ball, so you don't yell that. If you ever called "dead ball" at a clinic, you know why you don't do that.

I might also add something along the lines of, "damn, that must have hurt!".

Bob P.

[BigUmp56]

So I take it you've been to a clinic where someone has a shovel, Bob?


Tim.

[C'monBlue]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RPatrino

If you ever called "dead ball" at a clinic, you know why you don't do that.
*********

At the risk of flaunting my ignorance, I'll bite. Why would it be inappropriate to call "dead ball?" If the ball hits the batter or the bat, it's dead. If you call time, you are killing it anyway. I don't see the difference.

[UMP25]

And what if you cannot immediately tell if the ball hits the bat? Yelling "foul" will get you into a heap of trouble if you then award the batter first base on said foul.

Saying "time" covers everything. After all, it's "time" whether it's a foul, HBP, dead ball strike, or dead ball ball.

[giuseppe]

usually, i have a long pre-game conference with my partner, if i'm not sure about a check swing, i don't wait defense asks for BU, i ask immediately to my partner. if he call before my request, i KILL HIM in the post-game conference. ( ah ah)
and... absolutely yes, HBP is TIME, if PU can't see the batter hit by ball. but don't forget, the HBP can be a ball too.......................right?

greetings from italy.

[SanDiegoSteve]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by C'monBlue

Originally posted by RPatrino

If you ever called "dead ball" at a clinic, you know why you don't do that.
*********

At the risk of flaunting my ignorance, I'll bite. Why would it be inappropriate to call "dead ball?" If the ball hits the batter or the bat, it's dead. If you call time, you are killing it anyway. I don't see the difference.

CmonBlue,

It's an inside joke with umpire instructors who try to be funny, as in "I hope you brought a shovel so you can bury that "dead ball." I always found this to be extremely non-funny, since technically the ball is most sincerely dead in this case.

The point being that the proper mechanic is to say "Time."