Balk or bad mechanics? - Page 8

SAump · #**106** (**permalink**) Sat Feb 25, 2006, 10:19pm

Reznor
Member

Registered: Feb 2006
Posts: 2
Ok Im good all. Thanks for the help. I spoke to an experienced umpire in my association and he cleared it up for me.

BigUmp56 · #**107** (**permalink**) Sat Feb 25, 2006, 10:39pm

Your concern for the umpire asking the initial question is appreciated. However, if you'll look closely at what he was asking you'll see his question was answered pretty quickly.

He didn't say anything about the pitcher stepping to the rubber in the set position and quick pitching. He said the pither started in the set position and then raised his hands above his head before he delivered the ball. That's where he had some confusion, on the motion of the hands. He was told early on as long as the pitcher raised the hands and delivered the ball in one continuous motion it wouldn't be a balk.

Tim.

SanDiegoSteve · #**108** (**permalink**) Sun Feb 26, 2006, 12:54am

Tim,

I must disagree here. I believed at the time he asked the question, he meant he started out getting on the rubber with his hands together, and then started his motion. This is what I said:

Quote:

He said "From being set..."

Reading this carefully, we can determine that Reznor is saying that the pitcher was starting with his hands together, and not with his pitching hand by his side. As largeone59 pointed out, this is not legal. He needs to start the set position with his hands apart, bring them together, and come set (stop), prior to delivering a pitch.

What he did constitutes a balk.

BigUmp56 · #**109** (**permalink**) Sun Feb 26, 2006, 01:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by Reznor
Hi all. I'm new here and a first year HS umpire.

Ok. Here's the situation. I was doing a JV game the other day and the pitcher was starting in the set position (not the stretch). From being set he would then lift both of his hands and glove above his head then make his delivery. Is this a balk or is a pitcher not required to come directly to the plate if hes not making or feinting a pickoff move?

I guess we're reading his intentions differently. I read this as the pitcher being in the set position as opposed to the windup. I don't see him mention anything about the pitcher seperating his hands. The way I envisioned what he was describing was the pitcher bringing his hands over his head while still together as part of his motion to the plate. The motion of the hands may have made it look like the windup, but absent the step back with the free foot I see this as a proper set position.

Tim.

ump1955 · #**110** (**permalink**) Sun Feb 26, 2006, 03:29pm

It is not a legal set position unless he brings his hands together and then makes a discernible stop. What he wrote was the pitcher starting immediately into his pitching motion with no set. This is clearly a balk.
What he wrote was definitely a balk

ump1955 · #**111** (**permalink**) Sun Feb 26, 2006, 03:32pm

I went back and reread exactly what the official wrote. "He lifted his hands over his head and pitched." If he stepped on the rubber into the set position with his hands together, he balked. If he stepped onto the rubber with his hands apart and then brought his hands together and pitched without a discernible stop, he balked. Any way you slice it, he balked.

BigUmp56 · #**112** (**permalink**) Sun Feb 26, 2006, 03:52pm

Please show me where he said anything about the pitcher stepping to the rubber at all, let alone stepping to the rubber in the set with his hands together. He only said the pitcher started in the set. To me that would inferr that he had already come set after taking his signs and then began his preliminary motion to deliver the pitch, and in doing so, raised his hands over his head. He's allowed to do this unless he steps back with the free foot at the same time. Sorry, but I don't see a balk here without reading more into the question than what was written.

Tim.

SanDiegoSteve · #**113** (**permalink**) Sun Feb 26, 2006, 06:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Man
It's real hard to envision what is happening here. There is a set position and a windup position. That's it. One can "go into a stretch" and one can "come set". These can only happen while using the set position.

We could all spit out the pitching rule, but try explaining what happened more clearly and the community will be able to help you better.

D

Here is the true right answer, as the question was poorly worded to start with. It depends on what was meant by "being in the set" in order to ascertain whether or not it was a balk. If the pitcher came to a set position legally, then what he did was not a balk. If he started his motion with his hands together, it was a balk.

SAump · #**114** (**permalink**) Tue Feb 28, 2006, 07:59am

Not a balk, just one of those LEGAL inconsistent variations that DG describes to a TEE.

In this particular motion, no base runner is present. The pitcher may still pitch from a stretch. The pitcher is taking his sweet time (stalling) delivering the ball to the plate by raising his hands a second time. Its one of those double pump thingies with the high leg kick. The opposite form from the slide step where he would pitch directly to the plate with a lower leg kick. Later the pitcher will VARY (shorten) his mechanics with a runner on base. This play as described is completely LEGAL.

JMOHOA
NO BALK.

BigUmp56 · #**115** (**permalink**) Tue Feb 28, 2006, 09:08am

How many times have you failed the MMPI, SAump?

Tim.

ump1955 · #**116** (**permalink**) Tue Feb 28, 2006, 07:00pm

To SAUMP- have you actually opened up and read the Federation rulebook? This is not umpire interpretation. The pitcher's feet determine windup or stretch. I'm not making it up- it's in the rulebook. What a picher can and cannot do when in the stretch is in the rulebook. Whether or not to pause is not my interpretation- it's in the rulebook. If you are going to start making up your own rules, I hope you don't work a game with me, because we will definitely be combing coaches out of our hair.

SAump · #**117** (**permalink**) Tue Feb 28, 2006, 08:03pm

From what I have read, this was part of the natural delivery motion and it is completely LEGAL.

Read it yourself here, "Ok. Here's the situation. I was doing a JV game the other day and the pitcher was starting in the set position (not the stretch). From being set he would then lift both of his hands and glove above his head then make his delivery. Is this a balk or is a pitcher not required to come directly to the plate if hes not making or feinting a pickoff move?"

"From being set," fulfills the 1st requirement for preliminary motions and "he would then make his delivery," fulfills the last requirement. That "raising his hands and glove above his head" sounds like he's been taught to conceal the baseball until the last possible moment. A very practical thing prior to making the natural delivery motion to the plate.

There is NO runner on base and NO attempt to deceive the runner or batter was made. I already stated that it would be a BALK if a quick pitch attempt was made. Others have already spoken that outside a quickpitch, this is completely LEGAL. I certainly hope it was completely LEGAL because there is NO BALK rule pertaining to his natural motion.

Kaliix · #**118** (**permalink**) Wed Mar 01, 2006, 06:43am

SAump, read the rules. The set position is when the pitcher, in one continuous motion, comes to a complete and discernable stop, with both hands in front of the body and the glove at or below chin level, by FED definition.

If the pitcher engages the rubber with his hands in front of the body and the glove at or below chin level and then delivers the ball to the plate with out coming to a complete and discernable stop, HE HAS BALKED!

You forgot the one other requirement from pitching from the set position, coming to a complete and discernable stop.

Quote:

Originally posted by SAump
From what I have read, this was part of the natural delivery motion and it is completely LEGAL.

Read it yourself here, "Ok. Here's the situation. I was doing a JV game the other day and the pitcher was starting in the set position (not the stretch). From being set he would then lift both of his hands and glove above his head then make his delivery. Is this a balk or is a pitcher not required to come directly to the plate if hes not making or feinting a pickoff move?"

"From being set," fulfills the 1st requirement for preliminary motions and "he would then make his delivery," fulfills the last requirement. That "raising his hands and glove above his head" sounds like he's been taught to conceal the baseball until the last possible moment. A very practical thing prior to making the natural delivery motion to the plate.

There is NO runner on base and NO attempt to deceive the runner or batter was made. I already stated that it would be a BALK if a quick pitch attempt was made. Others have already spoken that outside a quickpitch, this is completely LEGAL. I certainly hope it was completely LEGAL because there is NO BALK rule pertaining to his natural motion.

DG · #**119** (**permalink**) Wed Mar 01, 2006, 09:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PWL

Quote:

Originally posted by BigUmp56

You left out one minor detail in the first scenario. Before he brings his hands together is when he must take his signal.[/B]

If the pitcher gets a sign there is a prescribed way to do it, but I don't recall a requirement for the pitcher to actually get a sign. So if he wants to step into a set position while bringing his hands together, without using a stretch, then he just needs to stop in this set position before delivering.

SanDiegoSteve · #**120** (**permalink**) Wed Mar 01, 2006, 10:43pm

PWL,

What DG is saying is that in order to take a sign from the catcher, the pitcher must be on the rubber. The pitcher may, if he chooses, step on the rubber, not take a sign, and then go to a set position. There is nothing that says he must take a sign, and you said that the pitcher must take his sign.